The overprotective Daddy culture. (No ones good enough for my little girl)

Reddit makes me feel old

There was a discussion about this sort of thing on a male-dominated site yesterday.

Yes that is a good point.

If my DS meets a girl who is screwed up, she will probably have a negative impact on his life for a few weeks or months.

If my DD meets a boy who is screwed up (or just is unlucky enough to get pregnant) he can have negative impact on her life for years or even forever.

And yes, of course there are exceptions.

I definitely remember having a conversation with someone about this some time, where they argued that it's just more dangerous for girls in relationships than men. The worst thing that's likely to happen to a man is that he gets dumped or cheated on. But the worst thing that is likely to happen to a girl or woman is that she gets pregnant or hit or raped or her whole self esteem crushed by an abusive controlling twat.

Of course there are extremes as well - probably the worst thing that can happen to a woman/girl is death, and the stats show this is far lower for men. Probably the worst "likely" thing to happen to a boy is that his girlfriend gets pregnant and then aborts the pregnancy when he wanted to continue with it. Much as it is absolutely her choice, that would be devastating for any man or teenage boy.

It would be interesting to know what the trend is with fathers who have sons/daughters who are gay. Are fathers of boys worried about the intentions of their boyfriends? Are fathers of girls protective about the girls their daughter wants to date?

I think it's the old stereotype, that boys can look after themselves (or should be able to), which of course is totally unfair, but that's patriarchy for ya.

And people worry about physical danger more than they do about emotional danger IYSWIM. They don't want to see their DC's sad, emotionally abused etc., but they'd rather that than raped and murdered, or beaten up and left with a life-changing injury.

The fact is, a horrible, manipulative, dysfunctional girl can do a lot less long term harm to my DS than a violent boy who could kick him in the head and leave him with brain damage. So although I'm not currently worrying about either, I would probably worry about the latter more.

I don't think I'be ever seen it the other way around, actually. With mothers being overprotective of their sons. I mean, yes, the MIL trope but that's much later in life, not the teen years. Perhaps its because my DS is younger and I don't know anyone in that stage yet.

I agree that there's a creepy element of "well I know what i was like/I encourage my son to be like" which speaks volumes. But I've seen a hint of it from DP who has always been decent even as a teenager.

If there is an element of "some guys are total dicks" then why does the same protectiveness not come from mothers or from either parent towards boys? Some girls/women do hurt men pretty badly. What is it?? Is it a higher fear of abuse/violence/rape? And hence, are men subconsciously aware that the world is not as equal as they like to pretend it is, and want to protect and shield their daughters from finding this out?

Actually I think that you are definitely on to something there Thinkaboutittomorrow.

Sorry but I did almost splutter tea all over my keyboard at this:

"My husband is especially good at it....he has cut out his friends on the basis of how they treat their wives/girlfriends.

Sadly he is now pretty much friendless"

Debris. Thing is it's not as simple as that I don't think. There is a huge double standard that this issue gets to the heart of: men see nothing wrong with other men and their treatment or perception of women (in the socially acceptable light touch objectification and poor treatment not the hard core abuse and misogyny). They don't hate them and in some respect at some point in their lives most men have been part of the lad culture. They just have a horrible sick feeling as soon as they view that behaviour through the lens of their daughter being on the receiving end. Turning it into a joke is I think in some way a method of normalising, reducing and getting out there this horrible revelation. Then they can keep a nice clear distinction between the social norm of jokes and page 3 and any impact it has on their daughter. And they don't have to hate themselves or other men or feel guilty about being arses in the past.

Debris, I have to agree. Naturally as a feminist, I only keep good men (well, men who treat women/men/children/animals well) in my life, and ALL these men have no hesitation in calling out other men for their behaviour.

My husband is especially good at it....he has cut out his friends on the basis of how they treat their wives/girlfriends.

Sadly he is now pretty much friendless (apart from one amazingly lovely man and an elderly gent) but he can't care less.

And men's attitude to men. It's astounding that feminists get so much stick for supposed man-hating, when it is often other men and non-feminist women who actually don't think much of men in general.

My DP plays the overprotective dad thing. He is not the porn viewing type, he is relatively enlightened about gender but is very conscious of men in general and attitudes/ treatment of women.

It's tricky. On the one hand it is a standard cultural reference and one of many set roles / jokes for fathers of daughters. On the other i think it plays to an emotional truth many dads feel.

It interests me particularly in the context of the rape / forced fantasy thread question. I worry that this messaging of 'you're so precious, no man should ever touch you' will build in some guilt about sex. That it's wrong or letting daddy down or something.

Even aside from the more obvious implications of men's general attitudes to women.

So agree with Trills and Mildred.

I'm a grumpy old judgy pants though penguins there's no point fooling myself.

Still i have a couple of years to work on myself I suppose

Yes, the thing men do that women don't tend to is the intimidation and implicit or explicit threats of violence. That is a tired old trope in fiction (Hell, I love Jed Bartlett in WW, but even he rolls it out) and it seems to be surfacing in real life too.

My kids are only young, but I think it is quite sad to be of the view that no one will be good enough for your child. I hope I don't feel like that when they are older. Certainly from the perspective of the child, my parents loved and respected my choice of partner, and yes, they think he's plenty good enough for me. Sure, I can see my children making choices of partners I don't think are good enough for them. But I hope I don't start from the point that no one can be.

I'm not sure there is equity. What I do see (and hear) the most is mothers being protective of their sons and men being protective of their daughters, but not so much the other way around. Is it nothing more than projection ? Though, I'm not sure the mothers who do that bring quite so many threats of violence into the equation, or at least none that hold any weight ( reference the other thread about men benefitting from other men being violent).

Well yeah we all feel like that

But there is a definite trope. It's in pop culture and I am seeing it more and more in RL as my friend's daughters grow up. DH tells me his mates often mention it.

But yeah no one will be good enough for my kids and like you i'll probably shut up about it too

christ on a bike
. i do not think this is a fathers domain

have i respected my childrens decisions on the parteners they have ? i don't say or do anything overtyl ofcourse - that would be rude - but no one is good enough for my children

i say that as a mother and i think that this is not only a fathers domain - in fact feminists, i think there is complete equity in this regard

These fathers are essentially admitting there is something inherently wrong with men and boys.that they can't be trusted.what on earth does that say about how they feel about themselves? My oh has often pointed out how bad men can be...but doesn't class himself in that category. they can't all be right.
Do all men secretly hate other men? Is that why they are so violent to each other? Just an extrapolation....

A little cliché and over-hyped as more common than it is but it does exist.

I have daughters but I don’t think I am overprotective, they are teenagers now and they know I am OK with them expressing their sexualities as they choose, with partners be they male or female. I am concerned for their safety, of course, but I cant make snap value judgements on who they choose to be with, I have to trust their opinions and support them if something bad happens.

I think the kinds of fathers you talk about probably fall into two groups (and some mixed) the first one would be suffering a type of pre-cursor to 'empty nest' syndrome, ie 'I am no longer the most important male in my daughters life'. The second type I would call 'closed down' with psychological problems that go all the way back to the playground at age 7. They would thump a son on the shoulder and say 'be a man' (go out and get laid) only to be terrified for their daughters, because the types of sons they would raise are the ones they most fear their daughters encountering, because to to that father those types of men ARE men. The soft spoken male violin player who plays chess and smiles at his daughter with love in his eyes would be near incomprehensible.

I'm a bit shruggy about the lyrics to Robbie's song. He's just telling her to avoid men like he is/was.

I am, however, fascinated by the "I'll break your legs" type of Daughter Protector Daddy. I would love to hear their opinion on whether feminists hate men.

mildred, it isn't meant to come across like that. It's not that girls who "know what to expect" will never find themselves in a less than healthy relationship, or that "girls who don't know" are responsible if they do, but it is a phenomenon that women who have low expectations of men are more likely to accept bad treatment earlier on in relationships and perhaps get more sucked in.

It's definitely not a cure-all and it's crappy if the onus is put onto girls this way but I think it would help some girls... it would have helped me. I think that most people go through some crappy relationships before they figure out what's right and good and what they like, but low-level abusive behaviour and sexist behaviour is so excused in our culture and accepted almost - I mean, look at Twilight! Look at the reaction to anybody splitting up on your facebook timeline! Popular culture! Music! Comedy series about dating and relationships... it's all over the place. It's worth it to offer an alternative view from the home where girls will really take it in and internalise it without even realising really.

Mildred, I have no illusions that it's no more than good as far as it goes. Still better than nothing.

Perhaps it falls into that fraught category where trying to teach children (or anyone else) how to look after themselves risks looking like victim blaming - either of those who weren't taught those 'lessons', or who were and didn't learn them.

I'm aware that my use of language is probably dubious in its own right, I'm struggling a little!

Sorry to hear you're in such a dark place.

Yes!! OMG, I've wanted to start this thread for ages. Thank you, OP.

I find it really really frustrating. We were watching an episode of "My Wife and Kids" which, okay, is pretty old now, but it was classic - they are SO ridiculously protective of their daughter dating and the dad is shown "hilariously" intimidating her boyfriends etc. Yet, when their son is dating, he's all "Aww, yeah, go on son."

Similarly in an episode where they go on holiday their daughter is not allowed to wear a bikini on the beach in case men lech at her, but when their son is leching on every girl he can see they just laugh at him.

It really, really pisses me off TBH.

And of course it ties into those creepy purity/chastity balls in the USA where 12 year old girls get dressed up, attend as their fathers 'dates' and publicly swear to be a good little virgin until they marry (and to hand over their virginity to their father for safe keeping). Creepy as fuck if you ask me.

This is heavily associated with more extreme Christian fundamentalism in the US and is very much out of the mainstream.

Pretty much, mildred, though I prefer to think of it as a vocation