Am I wrong to let my daughter enjoy being girly then?

Your son needs MrsFlorrick!

The only things I've seen scorn heaped on are shops for genderising their products and telling consumers 'This is for boys and this is for girls', grandparents/ILs etc hoicking their bosoms at any child not seen to be wearing the 'correct' kind of clothes or doing the 'correct' activity for their gender (boys playing with prams, girls in blue dungarees etc), and posters saying things like 'What's wrong with me wanting my DD to look like a girl?' and then not engaging if anyone tries to unpick the term and what it means.

I think a lot of little girls (and probably boys too) have a pink phase. As long as she is comfortable (and her dress sounds ace) and has the option to wear and do other things that aren't necessarily considered 'girly' then what's the problem?

Of course YANBU.
I know what you mean about a certain subset of MN. You get the feeling that unless you're actually raising your daughter as a boy you're somehow sending her the message that she should aspire to being barefoot, pregnant and chained to the sink.

I think you're fine.

In fact I'll go further - the only time I ever wish I'd had a girl is when I go shopping with my friend (who's got a toddler DD) and I can fondle all the cute pink stuff. I can confidently say that if I'd had a girl she'd have spent the first year or so of her life in a froth of pink and probably longer depending on her personal taste and at what age it manifested itself.

If she likes pink and frills let her bloody wear pink and frills!

My 4 yo DD loves pink and purple. But doesn't like dolls and loves playing with train track.

My 2 yo DS is obsessed with lip balm and lip stick. Begs me for lip stick in shops. And tries to take lip balms from my drawers and handbag and stock pile them in his room. He did ask for blue lipstick last week though.

No matter what colours she wears, the most important thing is to encourage self-confidence, and that she can do anything she wants (for example wearing pink doesn't mean she can't also like sports or science). And also that her looks isn't the most important thing about her, that there are other lovely sides and strenghts to her.

Ruth, I also have a 20month old girls and I feel uneasy sometimes seeing just how much influence we as mothers have on our daughters! I love clothes and style and I wear make-up; I'm fine with all of this now and feel like I have a healthy attitude towards it all. But I'll admit that I got a little freaked when I was home-waxing my legs the other day and DD started getting in on the job by applying old bits of sellotape to her own legs... She also adores rifling through my wardrobe and making oooh noises when I try stuff on for an evening out, etc. But I think little boys would do this too - I don't have a son so can't say.

Anyway, it's more important to me that DD sees her dad doing stuff around the house, ironing his own shirts, cooking for her, taking her out and dressing her, that kind of thing, so that it's not just mama who is associated with all things domestic and sartorial. Because I honestly believe that this is where the battle for equality is mostly being fought - in the home. I don't really have any dolls for DD, and I won't be going out and buying Disney Princess stuff. That said, I don't really think it matters. The only thing I will insist on is a wide variety of books.

I have to admit to not liking the idea of my DD becoming a girly girl (she's only 20 months so I'm sure I've got it to come) but then I asked myself if it was something I'd stop a DS doing, if I had one. If I had a son who liked pink and playing with dolls and having tea parties, I wouldn't dream of stopping him, because I wouldn't want to force him to conform to a typical masculine role. So surely it would be unfair of me to put similar restrictions on my little girl?

I don't know why anyone is surprised that little girly like all things 'girly'. You might not be encouraging them to do so but our culture is saturated with images of 'girliness' being desirable and the best ways to attain it.

I want my daughter to grow up to be a woman who is proud of being a woman. But that shouldn't restrict her in any of her choices.

DD went through a phase of wanting everything to be pink and sparkly. She grew out of it by about 7.

"Oh I'm sure you'll have to be very careful not to spoil such a lovely dress at nursery, by climbing or getting paint on it"

Can you turn the tables on your MIL and pretend to have totally missed the fact that she's being catty? Act like you think she's seriously telling your DD to be careful of her dress and have a word with her, saying you want to be very careful that DD doesn't grow up thinking she has to be careful of looking pretty and restricting her activities, and you're worried that saying thinks like that will give her the wrong message.

Should a) embarass her into shutting up and b) make her realise there's no need for the catty comments as, essentially, you both want the same for DD.

Facebook - it is worse than that. Pink lego isn't just lego with some pink thrown in. It's a more restrictive, prescribed range that affects how a child can play with the toy. Which really gets me ranting....

I have real issues with the term 'girly' actually.

To use the term girly is to made all sorts of assumptions and use all sorts of short hand about what it means to be a girl/female. And then, to make it worse, it gets traded back to us as an insult (girly throw, etc).

So I try to avoid that term. I also avoid tom boy. When my DD is into dolls she is not 'being a girl' when she climbing a tree she is not being a fake boy.

But leaving that aside, I think part of the tension is that "Well my daughter is just naturally into pink/frills/dolls" is all too often used in discussions as a way of closing down discussion and preventing analysis or gender stereotyping and societal pressures. "It's all innate so shut up and stop moaning", etc. And when people try to respond to that, they often get accused of hating all things pink and frilly and deriding 'girly' choices.

There is nothing at all wrong with a girl (or a boy) wanting to climb a tree in a tutu, or push a pram in combat trousers. Or any combination of the above. But I do find that, where the DD's make very 'conventional' female choices in things, I have more concerns about whether it is their genuine personality coming through, or whether outside pressures led them down that route.

And I wouldn't buy a pink car seat, buggy etc. We used skate boards, roller skates kites etc that were gender neutral. It never crossed my mind that they should look 'girly' pink Lego does the same as traditional coloured Lego. I really hate the way some toys or other products aimed at children are either blue or pink. It's not needed.

Starball - But lego, kites, etc weren't seen as girls or boys toys, just toys. I was a "girly girl" and loved flying my stunt kite and playing board games. Toys are much more gendered now, than they were in the past.

But wearing non pink isn't being a Tom boy. I was born in '71 and I never wished for pink wellies, pink Lego etc. I liked wellies and I liked my toys. I never wished for a boyish version of my toys.

I played with Lego, Meccano, Tonka toys but also liked my Sindy dolls.

I do think that on MN lots of people make a big thing of girls enjoying climbing trees etc as if it's something to be proud of, when really it's just a child being a child. Why is it remarkable that a girl like wearing pink AND climbing trees?

My dd was exactly like that at five. By seven she had abandoned all things pink and glittery for Deadly 60 and a shark obsession which lasted years; she's 12 now and can't stand pink anything.

I can't say I've noticed the attitude you're talking about on MN at all; what I have noticed is a tendency to say that despite gender neutral parenting the girls are drawn to pink.
I think it's important to remember the context in which girls make these decisions and to bear in mind that often girls are given access to pink and sparkly in a way boys aren't no matter how they are parented.

As for your MIL's attitude, well, that says a lot about her. You sound like you're quite happy for dress to be properly played on where as MIL sounds like she's conforming to the pretty dress = must not ruin or play much etc.

I was a primary child in the 70's and you had no choice, but to be a Tom boy if you wanted any fun.

Girls bikes were miniature ladies bikes, they'd have fallen apart jumping over piles of builders sand and bouncing of curbs.

There weren't many girly versions of anything, but if there were they weren't up to the job.

There were no girly toy cars, Lego, skate boards, kites no gendered board games.

The idea of a pink push chair, pram or car seat you couldn't use if DC2 was male was totally laughable. Many DCs wore coats, wellies and jumpers that belonged to the other sex sibling. Clothes were much more expensive relative to wages, no way would DM have bought pretty pale pink or frilly white clothes as they would have got trashed.

I don't think any scorn is heaped upon girly girls OP.

In fact, I'd say society, particularly in the UK, values girly girls highly. Toys, clothes, telly, books are all geared to embrace girly girls.

There is very little choice. One actively has to seek it out. Girls who are not into pink, sparkles and My Little Pony are the outliers!

Madcap thanks for the link...great website!

So it's not that the dress restricts your DD - it's that your MIL has subconsciously thought 'pink fluffy dress=quiet, sedate 'girly' behaviour'.

Annoying.

I guess I am thinking of a dress with acres of netting, but it sounds a bit more flexible than that and if you don't mind it getting roughed up then that's great.

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