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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sex: My British Job. Channel 4

759 replies

YouMakeMeWannaLaLa · 23/09/2013 23:23

Anybody see this? It was just horrific. I really, really hope it reached the right audience: punters and their defenders. I doubt it, but I hope so Sad

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GoshAnneGorilla · 27/10/2013 02:37

Being anti male entitlement and anti male abuse of women is not being anti sex. Waving the "prude" card at us, to try and shame us is bog standard misogyny.

We've had the "Let the sex-workers speak for themselves" argument before, the problem is it is only the privileged who get to do so and they push the "I'm alright, Jack" line because it is in their own interests to do so.

And what is their solution anyway? Oh that's right, to completely normalise prostitution, erase any harm it causes whatsoever and decriminalise the industry with "self-appointed/internal monitoring", so it operates entirely behind closed doors, making any abuses even harder to identify. Scot-pep's proposals would not help the women featured in the documentary, because Scot-pep and their ilk like to deny these women even exist. Or get the likes of Laura Augustin to claim these women are economic migrants so "have chosen their careers".

Bollocks to that. The people who benefit most from such a stance are pimps and punters, although as we know, the red umbella posse like to claim the former don't exist and the latter are all lovely.

Social Justice is not about listening to the most privileged, it is about listening to those with the least privileged and helping them.

If sex work is so maaaarvellous, why is that it is mainly performed by women with very limited choices? Why aren't more men doing it?

mediarek · 27/10/2013 02:29

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mediarek · 27/10/2013 02:25

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GoshAnneGorilla · 27/10/2013 02:19

I think we've already read and critiqued that report on here or the IM thread already.

YouMakeMeWannaLaLa · 27/10/2013 01:03

Ok mediarek crack on and give us the solution!

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mediarek · 27/10/2013 01:51

Criminalising buyers won't have the effect you want. Sweden tried that and they found if a case went to court the sex workers refuse to see themselves as victims and almost always refuse to testify against the client.

www.hivlawcommission.org/resources/report/FinalReport-Risks,Rights&Health-EN.pdf

UN Global Commission of HIV and the Law 2012 (see page 38)

Beachcomber · 27/10/2013 00:42

Hear hear, YouMakeMeWannaLaa.

It's all a bit thorny how to make prostitution a "job" and remain within standard employment law.

Actually, scrap that, it's impossible.

YouMakeMeWannaLaLa · 26/10/2013 23:05

Oh dear goshAnne That's depressing isn't it Sad

bale You said that HSE and Employment law could be brought into prostitution easily (without forcing sex workers to become self-employed, thus exempt) if it was regulated.

I cannot disagree more! If prostitution was legalised and regulated sex workers would be entitled to protection from the HSE and from the Equality Act.

Do you understand risk assessments or hazard awareness involved in HSE? Or equal opportunities? Prostitution, as it is, is not compatible with these at all!

I used to be a microbiologist working with TB cultures...even when the cultures were dead, to handle them I had to be trained in infection control, wearing PPE (head covering, goggles, gloves, shoe-coverings i.e. a helluva lot more than a condom) and follow a strict protocol (i.e. have 2 people working together, signing off on procedures etc.).

A prostitute would be handling potentially lethal, infectious material: hepatitis, HIV, chlamydia etc. In line with HSE she would need to wear goggles, gloves and a disposable covering at least...No union or insurance company would sanction skin to skin (without an intense cleansing routine like HCPs) and certainly not penetration, due to the high risk of infection.

That is before we get started on possible pain (no job under HSE requires an employee to experience pain) and if you've ever had a cock up your arse, even voluntarily, let me tell you, there's at minimum a certain ouchy-twinge.

Or before we cover psychological issues likely to arise from employment. Workplaces dealing with intense workloads and issues often have their own counsellors/occupational therapists (workplaces for example; MH teams, entertainment industry peeps, emergency services etc.). Any professional is able to sign any workers off on MH/stress grounds...In my opinion I reckon many prostitutes would qualify for this after their first client!

As for the Equality Act: brothels would be required to demonstrate that they are actively recruiting and employing people of every gender, religion, race, age and sexual orientation.

Obviously, this could not work.

So to support prostitution as a service industry (boak) that works the government would have to revoke certain employment rights and protection from prostitutes...so regulation is void for actual sex workers.

And as for you saying that punters could join a register etc....get fucking real! As if many men would sign up for that; the ones that would would be 'encouraged' by your legislation to think buying women was legit and fun...the majority would just seek out discreet street experiences safe in the knowledge that they could just claim they thought it was legal.

Criminalise all buyers...fine them and publicise their names, pump loadsa resources into it (big returns...punters have money and are scared to face consequences).

Interested to hear Bale and wino 's thoughts.

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GoshAnneGorilla · 26/10/2013 21:29

There was (I don't think it's still active thankfully) an Irish "sex worker activist" org set up by a pimp. As part of their activism they ran a poster campaign to advertise what a great job prostitution was.

Can we guess which gender featured in the posters?

www.google.co.uk/search?q=turn+off+the+blue+light&rlz=1C1DSGQ_enGB544GB544&espv=210&es_sm=93&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=rCVsUsSNM6eV0AXeioGoCg&ved=0CDgQsAQ&biw=1366&bih=667#es_sm=93&espv=210&q=turn+off+the+blue+light+posters&tbm=isch

BuffytheAnyAppleFucker · 26/10/2013 11:32

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Beachcomber · 26/10/2013 11:28

Really Buffy ?!

A famous male comic actor treating the idea of prostitution as work as a subject for sarcastic satirical comedy? Surely not!!!

BuffytheAnyAppleFucker · 26/10/2013 10:55

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SabrinaMulFUCKERJjones · 26/10/2013 10:52

Like we're gonna tell you.

inwinoweritas · 26/10/2013 10:19

What's with the "fucker" many of you have adopted as part of your monikers?

Beachcomber · 26/10/2013 10:12

What do you want to do when you grow up darling?

A doctor? Gosh that will be hard work. Have you thought about being a prostitute? You don't need to do all that boring studying and you could work anywhere in the world.

Yes darling boys can do it too, I know it's overwhelmingly girls but things won't change if boys like you don't enter the profession.

What does it involve? Well it's part of the service sector I think.

What does that actually mean? It means sucking cocks and having them put in you.

inwinoweritas · 26/10/2013 10:01

Sal-where is the c&p? All my own words except where I deliberately quote then link to the original document. You might find it tedious but then maybe you don't like your assumptions challenged?

Beachcomber · 26/10/2013 09:48

Yeah, let's make being penetrated by all comers a job. Great idea.

Careers advisors could inform school leavers about this job. Students could do work experience in it. Let's have adverts for jobs in prostitution in the job centre. Unemployment could be reduced overnight.

Great idea.

Yougotbale · 26/10/2013 09:47

Flora - I'm not proposing anything, I'm not lobbying.

Buffy - no probs. I'll try and get up to speed on this area. I can see it's very passionate.

BuffytheAnyAppleFucker · 26/10/2013 09:38

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FloraFoxForAnyFucker · 26/10/2013 09:37

bale what you seem to be proposing seems nonsensical but perhaps you are not putting your ideas across coherently. Can you summarise your views re the buyer and the seller and what would be legal and what would be illegal?

sab I work with some Swedish companies and I love the way they work. They are, without doubt in my mind, a great model of how we should organise our working lives.

SabrinaMulFUCKERJjones · 26/10/2013 09:33

Good grief. You certainly know how to stir up a thread, bale.

BuffytheAnyAppleFucker · 26/10/2013 09:33

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Yougotbale · 26/10/2013 09:31

Sab - it would definitely be a good way to go, no debate there

SabrinaMulFUCKERJjones · 26/10/2013 09:29

Ta bale. Sorry, I didn't realise I was meant to "come up with ideas" Is this a sixth form brainstorming sesh now? OK.

Sweden has a very feminist government - very interested in sexual equality. It's a good way to go. Nothing is perfect, but certainly a good move to criminalise punters/pimps and decriminalise prostitutes, with exit programs/support/rehab.

Yougotbale · 26/10/2013 09:29

Buffy - you misread