Sex: My British Job. Channel 4

wino more misinformation produced by pro-pimp lobbyists to bolster punters' delusions.

Yes the the law in NZ prohibits the prostitution of minors but it does not require punters to obtain proof of age.

"But she looked 18, Guv" suffices.

The law also allows mini brothels (Soobs) to operate in residential areas with no need for a permit.

www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10783338

Beachcomber (post Wed 30-Oct-13 14:02:36 ).
The First party always opposed the PRA and the MP you cite should already know that the PRA prohibits underage sex workers (it has always been prohibited in NZ) so I don't know what amendments to the PRA she has in mind

A smaller (but different) selection of the contents of the book are available from Amazon "look inside"(Abel et al Taking the Crime Out of Sex Work: New Zealand Sex Workers' Fight for Decriminalisation)

I suggest that rather than just read When's spiel you actually read the abstracts-some quite good on the feminist debates and perhaps make up your own minds-ah but your minds are already made up-sorry I forgot

www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-28/young-pacific-island-girls-working-as-prostitutes-in-nz/4986524

Pacific Island girls as young as 13 are working as prostitutes on the streets of South Auckland, according to a member of Parliament in New Zealand.

New Zealand First Party MP Le'aufa'amulia Asenati Lole Taylor has told Radio Australia's Pacific Beat the problem is that many Pacific Island girls are finding the sex trade more lucrative than school or a regular job.

"A13 year old was telling me she was earning between $600-$800 dollars a night," Ms Taylor said.

"She was also very proud to say that if she was able to earn $600 a night, she only had to work a few days, she doesn't have to work the whole week."

"Some of these girls who are doing it have actually run away from home and they don't have the fear of worrying about what their families might say or what the consequences would be when they go back home," she said.

Ms Taylor says it's too hard to do something about these young girls working as prostitutes unless amendments are made to the current laws on prostitution.

Well I skim read a couple of wino's long posts and apart from picking up a suggestion that I am dim and have a racist attitude because I see the institution of prostitution as a global issue, couldn't see anything that hasn't been said infinitum by this poster already.

Posts still reek of a sense of superiority and a certainty that a man knows best about, well, everything really. Who can be arsed frankly?

BTW many of the prostituted people I meet in the drop in centre are indoor I don't know where wino got the idea that they are not - a lot of women come because we offer condoms, clean needles and STD services. They also come for pregnancy testing, abortion advice and counselling. The point of the centre is not to "save" anyone . It is to mop up the consequences of prostitution. Because someone has to

This is where the "sex work is just work" argument falls down.

If I am in any other service industry, serving a customer I don't want to means giving them food, pouring them a drink, putting through their purchases on the till.

In the sex industry, serving a client I don't want to means I am being raped.

Something wino skimmed over in his post that I think needs to be picked out:

"In NZ prostitutes can legally refuse clients they don’t want (although some brothels are worse than others in permitting this-the larger brothels seem to be better).

Emphasis added.

So, actually in practice, in the sex work wonderland of NZ, there are still women having sex with clients they don't want to, aka being raped, because the brothels don't "permit" them to refuse clients.

If there are women not even allowed to refuse clients, how many women are also not "permitted" to refuse to perform certain sexual acts?

And that's what's happening in the brothels, which are presented as havens of egalitarian sex industry activity.

Care to quantify that "some" wino? So we can know just how many brothels are happy for their employees to be raped?

So you too changed your name in support of the (anti-porn and prostitution btw) poster AnyFucker, wino?

Now, that is funny.

A man employed in the industry of licensing prostitutes would not be my first port of call for a neutral perspective on the Swedish model.

wino you are descending into the depths of your fantasies:

"thy universally use protection in their working life"

Are you fucking serious??

wino hmm, well I don't know Prof Lowman so I relied on the evidence he gave at the inquiry into the Pickton scandal as reported by a leading newspaper in Canada including direct quotes from his cross-examination:

www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/prostitution-tolerance-zones-reflected-aims-of-law-pickton-inquiry-told/article558781/

I can see this is was also the finding of the official report published by the enquiry which found, based on the submissions of the local police department that they had tolerance zones in the area where the women were picked up by Pickton and that the tolerance zones exposed the women to increased insecurity and vulnerability to violence.

The official report of the inquiry found (p. 96):

"The DTES strolls [which he goes on to find were tolerance zones and described as such by the local police in their submissions to the inquiry] became a space where justice did not prevail, where violence against women was rendered invisible. Men were able to enter the zone, commit violent crimes and not be held accountable."

www.missingwomeninquiry.ca/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Forsaken-Vol-2B-web-RGB.pdf

You're not trying to spread misinformation by any chance wino? Surely not.

Why don’t you ask those-the majority (not the ones in your drop in centre who seem to be the most desperate) but those (the majority) working indoors who find it more problematical than many other jobs?

Brilliant Freudian slip in the last half of that sentence.

So you too changed your name in support of the (anti-porn and prostitution btw) poster AnyFucker, wino?

Bale
For feminist views on prostitution see here
You can learn a lot about the Swedish model, the views of radical and liberal feminists and the legislation surrounding prostitution in this article “ The Ban on purchasing sex in Sweden: the so-called Swedish model” available here written by Bob Wallace, principle policy officer of the Queensland Australia Prostitution licensing Authority (PLA). The PLA is the arms length government organization set up to regulate prostitution in Queensland which operates a strict legalized system
Actually the PLA website is a good source of information on prostitution-not just in Queensland.here. The “in touch” magazine is particularly informative.

Flora
Going through some of your old assertions
Post Wed 16-Oct-13 22:21:17 Do you have stats for any of your latest assertions? How very scientific of you to "suspect"…. well not stats but here are the references about prostitutes being employees private contractors and tax. In Queensland see here for an explanation and for the situation in Victoria see here p 20-21 so you can see the “suspect” has a solid grounding

(post Fri 18-Oct-13 18:37:32) You claim Robert Pickton picked up his victims in a tolerance zone in Vancouver. Now I know a bit about prostitution in Canada and I was unaware that there were any tolerance zones in Vancouver-so I checked with Prof John Lowman (prof at Simon Fraser University in Vancouver and an expert in prostitution and especially in homicides website here and he said that to his knowledge there were not. So I wonder where you got your information from-or was it completely made up?

LaLa (post Sat 26-Oct-13 23:05:59)
Prostitution has been decriminalized in NZ or ten years-that means that prostitution is treated lie any other legal work and subject to the same health and safety laws as any other job.
You try and liken prostitution to handling dangerous pathogens-it’s not. The health of prostitutes in terms of sexually transmitted diseases is actually very good because thy universally use protection in their working life (as is required by the law in NZ)-the general populace is worse as condom use is not universal.
In NZ prostitutes can legally refuse clients they don’t want (although some brothels are worse than others in permitting this-the larger brothels seem to be better). And prostitutes set their own limits-certainly in most licensed premises anal sex is not permitted and prostitutes in their negotiations with clients will make it clear if anal sex is on offer (most don’t do it) and for what fee-and again thy will say their agreement is conditional on the size of the member and is “at their discretion”.
As far as working late at night goes brothels will have CCTV and other workers and managers around which helps ensure safety. Those working on outcalls rely on their agencies to check out a client’s bonafides (if outcall to a house will check electoral roll etc get the woman to call when she is at the place and when the session is finished) they may also employ drivers who act as security. Many outcalls are to hotels where the client’s bonafides can be checked with reception.
While no method is fool proof you are drawing a bizarre picture of what prostitution in a decriminalized environment (ten years old) is like.