Sex: My British Job. Channel 4

"How does one give empathy without moving or talking?"
It's a gift. Empathy is more a state of being.

LOL.
If a counsellor feels empathy but does not show it in any way then it is as useful to the other person as the silent workings of the counsellor's digestive process.

Empathy is no more a state of being than my desk is. Show it or it goes completely to waste. You seem to have the strange gift of completely ignoring the effect of behaviour (or complete lack of behaviour in the case of your weird take on empathy) on others as demonstrated by your view of people having a right to use the body of another as long as they have needs that must be met, and the bizarre view of empathy as a state of being, not in any way communicated to the other person.

In your callous perspective only the needs or feelings of one individual matter -- you seem incapable of accepting that everyone has needs that are equally deep and that those needs have to be reconciled and ordered.

Empathy is an active process involving a series of actions/inactions, it sure as hell isn't a 'state of being' and I am amazed that anyone would suggest or teach that it is.

Punters want to abuse, control and dominate because that's what they pay to do. To have sex on someone who isn't actively willing and wouldn't be if they hadn't been paid for is abuse. There is a whole website dedicated to making sure that punter's money is only spent where the woman is not going to make trouble/be unattractive/be upset/not allow the man to do whatever he wants. To suggest that punters are there purely for a sexual experience they couldn't get elsewhere merely shows that you don't understand the dynamics of prostitution.

Frodo - Flora has already explained that to you, our patriarchal society socialises men to believe that women's bodies are something they are entitled to.

Note that word: entitled.

I cannot believe any could be "poor, poor menz" after watching that documentary.

"How does one give empathy without moving or talking?"

It's a gift. Empathy is more a state of being.

The posters above must also think that I have time-travelling powers, in addition to my Derren Brown suggestion talents, because the clients came to the office with the problem already in their heads.

'Punters...they also want to control, dominate and abuse.'

How do you know? If you had said 'pimps', I wouuld agree.

I think perhaps Frodosmum believes a man's balls will turn blue and fall off unless he gets some frequently.

How does one give empathy without moving or talking?

“A counsellor is involved in socialising men by disseminating cultural and social norms, including the idea that men are entitled to have access to women's bodies for sex and/or that they have a ‘need’ for sex.”

There is no way in which such a strong and specific desire, such as sexual desire, could be conjured up out of nothing. It often arises in the body before the person reaching puberty has even been told the basic facts of life.

“How is giving empathy not active intervention?”

Because one is sitting there on one’s arse not moving or talking?

"The decision to have a child in particular requires much thought and responsible consideration since the child will not be consulted about its desire for life before it is conceived."

Very good. I have waited decades to hear someone say that.

How is giving empathy not active intervention?

Mathanxiety -- No matter what the circumstances, Frodosmum, nobody has an absolute right to a sex life or a sexual experience.
Frodosmum -- I hope that you realise that this applies to other things in life. For example, nobody has an absolute right to relationships or an absolute right to have children. These also require the active consent of a second party, but you don’t hear a lot about that.

Of course I realise this applies to every area of human life. On a thread about prostitution I think it was fair to use the example of a sexual experience as one item nobody has an absolute right to, and since you were suggesting that there are valid reasons why it is fine for one person to buy an experience of the body of another it was an appropriate response.

Nobody has an absolute right to have children or anything else they have their heart set on even if they can afford the item. Assessing the impact of satisfying our desires on others or on the planet we leave to our descendants if any is necessary before we decide how to get our needs filled. The decision to have a child in particular requires much thought and responsible consideration since the child will not be consulted about its desire for life before it is conceived. Or probably afterwards either. The decision to acquire an ivory figurine or goods known to be stolen are other examples where your decision might be easy. But you also might want to think twice about a Hummer or any other vehicle that will pass anything but a petrol pump, or clothing made in a sweatshop. I'm sure there are many other examples.

A counsellor is involved in socialising men by disseminating cultural and social norms, including the idea that men are entitled to have access to women's bodies for sex and/or that they have a "need" for sex.

Sex starvation does not exist for men or women.

Men and women both experience prolonged periods when they would like to have sex but cannot, for a number of reasons.

"socialis(ing) men into believing they have an entitlement to sex" would surely constitute active intervention?

"sex starvation and women not experiencing it though"

Please explain yourself. In what circumstances do you think that this happens to women? So that there is no misunderstanding.

"I submit that much of human sexuality is, similarly, poorly understood"

Don't let that stop you trotting out crap about sex starvation and women not experiencing it though.

No suggestion of active intervention was made.

For the record, counsellors do not ‘socialise’ or brainwash clients. Much of the work involves the fact that the latter can talk in a situation in which they will be listened to and understood and in which they will receive some empathy. Suggestions of active intervention are ill-founded.

Before Harlow, concepts such as maternal deprivation and the sensibilities of animals drew a complete blank with most of the population, but this changed, particularly when the film of the distressed animals was made public. Indeed, it is believed that this was the point at which the animal liberation movement was born. I submit that much of human sexuality is, similarly, poorly understood and that there are surprising new discoveries yet to be made.

So you do admit that there are human needs other than the basic biological survival needs referred to above? This was being denied on this thread. And all I had to do was remind you of the more ‘female-friendly’ example of maternal deprivation, rather than sexual deprivation, and suddenly everyone is nodding in agreement.

Beachcomber What the fuck is 'sex starvation' when it is at home?

It's an utter fallacy, that's what it is. Comparing such a tub of crap to Harlow's work is.... well, it's pretty ridiculous.

Unless we're trying to compare using a human being as a glorified wank sock to maternal deprivation, then it's also a strawman. The only reason young men feel suicidal if they don't get the sex they believe they deserve, is because society, patriarchal society, teaches them that they are entitled to sex, as often and as much as they want, which plays right into the realms of rape culture. No one is entitled to sex, no one has any right to sex.

I'm actually pretty shocked that anyone could have such odd ideas. No idea why I'm shocked though, people seem capable of believing all sorts of crap.

"As sex starvation is not generally experienced by women, they will not tend to identify with it as a problem."

What a load of bull. What you are describing is using your role as a student counsellor to socialise men into believing they have an entitlement to sex. Well done.

What the fuck is 'sex starvation' when it is at home?

Please don't answer that.

Given the vertical thinking demonstrated in the comments about my Samaritans reference, it is clear that some people are playing the "loveable buffoon" to provoke a reaction. Either that, or there are many conveyancing solicitors on this site.

As sex starvation is not generally experienced by women, they will not tend to identify with it as a problem.

I worked as a student counsellor in my final year and for some time after graduating, and sex starvation was a prominent concern among young males. It is an embarrassing subject for men to discuss, but when they let their guard down they talk about it in terms of depression, pain and suicidal thoughts. It is clearly crucial to their psychological well-being. It reminded me of that chap in the 1960s who conducted maternal deprivation experiments on infant monkeys, separating them from their mothers to assess the emotional and mental fallout:

"Harry Frederick Harlow was an American psychologist best known for his maternal-separation, dependency needs, and social isolation experiments on rhesus monkeys, which demonstrated the importance of care-giving and companionship in social and cognitive development.
Harlow’s experiments were controversial; they included rearing infant macaques in isolation chambers for up to 24 months, from which they emerged severely disturbed."

it's amazing anyone could watch that and dismiss it so utterly.

What's P net please?

That sentence, "buying a woman" is one of the grimmest sentences ever. It's almost like harking back to the days of slavery, with the "buying a slave", urgh.