Is the AlphaParent anti-feminist?

Also I'm going to stop calling it attached parenting, because we all know we're really talking about Attached Mothering, right?

I think this is one of the areas where the western interpretation of attached parenting has become skewed - as I alluded to in an earlier post. Extremely poor women who carry their children on their backs while they get on with looking after animals, planting and harvesting, fetching water etc aren't doing it because they believe their children deserve a 'full time parent'. They're doing it because they have to look after the animals, harvest and plant and get the water.

While mini's posts do make good points about capitalism, the current alternatives to capitalism (at the moment) don't involve women having a greater range of choices, freedom, economic power or free time either.

By the way mini, I believe you when you say you don't think one choice is better, but loaded phrases like 'full time mother' will usually make readers suspect otherwise. I have been a full time mother since I gave birth. Even when I went out to work, I didn't stop being a mother.

Mini - I'm struggling to see your incredibly articulate posts as little more than biological determinism - if pesky capitalism and society didn't get in the way, we could all spend all of our time with our children, which is how it should be, right? Not in my world.

Surely we need to stop seeing motherhood as some sliding scale between selfish and selfless and put more energy into talking about parenting - as in mums and dads. By repeating the "mother as everything" mantra we are simply creating an ideal that few can live up to, and colouring the experiences we have outside our families with presumed negativity and sadness.

By the way, when I say that some choices are anti-feminist I am not coming down on either side of WOHM and SAHM debate. I think both can be supported by feminism and both can be talked about in a feminist or anti feminist way

Really interesting points, Mini. I think that, not just with bfing but with nutrition in general, there can be a tendency to displace all one's parenting anxiety onto it - perhaps because it is relatively controllable?

GoshAnneGorilla - "the issue then is, who gets to decide what is or isn't a feminist point?"
you say that as if it is deeply problematic. Perhaps it is slightly problematic but I have absolutely no issue with all political and philosophical points not being a democracy. None at all. some people think better and make better decisions than others. Those people have a responsibility to share their thinking with others.

No where have I suggested that one choice is better. I am just saying that with the economic situation being what it is, with rising housing costs and inflation, stagnating wages, lots of jobs now being over professionalised but increasingly underpaid and the loss of traditional "male" jobs the pressure upon women to work means that many do. Most women do not make choices free from having to consider income. It may be better for children to have SAHM it may be better for children to have working mothers???? I am simply suggesting that analysing what is best for children or mothers can not be undertaken unless we understand fully that choices are not made in some place outside of society. Gosh if you read my post pls notice I am not giving a personal opinion on what I think is best.

I question why a bottle of breastmilk is better than looking after children full time. I am not saying one is better than the other but I can tell you why we are increasingly being told "breastfeeding is better, right done that, now get back to your desk" It may be better but then the argument could be made that parenting your children is best, so therefore to get maximum efficacy you should do this full time. But we don't receive those messages in the mainstream.

There was another woman commenting on the FB page that she had lost everything and been made bankrupt legally because she chose to BF and AP "my children have everything they need" So they might at the moment, how can we know. How many women would choose to go broke in the name of BF? not many because going back to work is both an economic necessity and a socially conditioned choice.

Zut - the issue then is, who gets to decide what is or isn't a feminist choice?

Especially as similar choices may be made for widely different reasons.

My biggest issue is that many of the proponents of "choice feminism" are hugely privileged women who think the answer to all issues would be for women to make the same choices they did. Which completely ignores that many choices aren't available to many women.

I am not even going to look at that page because I know it will make me ragey.
Completely agree with those who say " think it's a backlash against increased power women have now" and words to that effect. What is depressing is that the footsoldiers of the campaign are women themselves.

However, AnnieLobeseder, feminism is NOT about choice. There are anti-feminist choices. I think it is arguably anti-feminist to apply social pressure to deny women the physical and economic freedoms of choosing not to breastfeed, for instance. But to boil this down to "feminism is about choice" is stupid and pernicious.

Choice is a horrible, mis-used, over-used buzzword. "choice" in schools, for example, is about empowering already-socially-and-economically-empowered parents to get their children into good schools, as opposed to shit ones. I would rather ditch the choice and shit schools not exist. For reasons like this, and others, more directly related to feminism, hoisting "choice" as a sacred desideratum brings me out in a rash. It is usually a cover for some sort of every-man-for-himself, devil-take-the-hindmost position.

Mini - for all the anticapitalist spin, with the talk of all-consuming jobs vs "full-time parenting", you're starting to sound a bit Alpha Parent.

I work part time, my child goes to nursery. I think it's great and do not need anyone handwringing over it.

GoshAnne you are probably right, I hadn't thought of that. I chose that comment because of the obvious contradiction and because I think it raises an important point about the pressures of juggling career and motherhood.

The woman leaves herself open to the charge that she isn't in fact putting her child's needs above her own when she brags confesses to having left the baby at 4 weeks. But it could be argued that she wasn't putting her child's needs after hers but after the needs of her employer.

There are contradictions to all of this. We are under increased pressures because of the very competitive world in which we live under advanced western capitalism. If you take the view that there is a huge level of competition for good jobs and that the full time job is now not just a 9-5 affair but an all encompassing life's work. Where one invests more and more of oneself into it, both in terms of time and money spent on qualifications/training. Then it could be argued that in such a competitive environment then ones main priority should be to invest as much time effort and money in to your child's development. There is no short cutting this with electronic toys or pushing children into childcare settings with unqualified or poorly educated proxy parenting.

It seems that we have too much pressure in terms of our work/life balance because of the dirge of good well paid work.

Motherhood is being compressed into a short period of a few months with the emphasis on breastfeeding and not on child caring. The contradiction to this is that childhood is becoming longer precisely because of that competition for work. And the period in which women are encouraged to devote themselves to parenting is condensed to suit the needs of capitalism, not childhood development.

In the middle ages in Europe the world "child" did not exists and there was no such thing as adolescence. We had infants and adults. But now we have nurseries and schools acting as a depository for children to live out this extended childhood away from parents so that their care doesn't interfere with capitals need to exploit female labour. But where are the men in this? if less labour is needed and work is increasingly feminised and non-manual why don't we see fathers stepping up? They don't so all the pressure is on us, which is why breastfeeding becomes the ideal battlefield on which women can fight. I would even contend that many women (whatever work choices) choose this issue because women feel undue anxiety quite unrelated to breastfeeding. The issue of breastfeeding is used as a substitute representing other fears around their child's ability to compete in a very competitive world.

I also question why now a bottle of breastmilk is better than 5-6 years of full-time parenting. I am fairly certain that no amount of analysing the constituents of breastmilk v FF brings us any closer to understanding whether breastmilk is good/bad substitute for nurture and which of these aspects produces an emotionally as well as physically healthy child.

In short..... the world is wrong now can we put the sticks down?

Mini - that woman is probably American, they only get 6 weeks mat leave maximum.

It is hideously anti-feminist.

I heartily recommend checking out Sanctimommy on Facebook for the antidote.

I don't like this image that mother's are martyrs. It is a pedestal that sets women up to fail. The patriarchal system we live in is very good at setting women up to fail, also at pitting women against each other. As Minx said, this is the perfect environment. Women are the only ones who can breastfeed, women do most of the childcare. I think this pressure would be alleviated if men stepped up to the plate a bit more with regards childcare.

I also think that there is a fair amount of cognitive dissonance going on on that blog/FB page.

Why did I look at that Blog and facebook page?

One of the comments on the facebook page " I still managed to exclusively BF and pump when I went back to work full time 4 weeks post partum. It wasn't easy giving up all my spare time to make enough milk for my LO but ya know what?! It was damn well worth it! Because when I decided to be a mom, I decided my childs need were above my own"

Some might argue that going to work full time after only 4 weeks isn't in fact putting your child first.

Feeding is the perfect battleground for creating anxiety because only women can nurse.

We all make some sacrifices. I sacrificed my child's gut for my sanity. I sacrificed my career for his education giving up 12 years. We all make choices that suit us and our own children.

I was reading AP as AlphaParent on this thread.
I agree with SinisterSal. There seems to be a belief that if you do a,b, and c it will produce a lovely, emotionally mature and well rounded child and then adult. However, in reality, there is no magic formula. You can do what you think of as all the 'right' things and have an over anxious child, a spiteful child etc . I know a child of alcoholics, he has had a very dysfunctional upbringing but is a sunny, outgoing, kind,intelligent teenager. Obviously I am not saying it doesn't matter,but all the little things like whether you give your baby purées or finger food or both matter not one jot.
There is no such thing as an Alpha Parent- a parent that suits one child is an utter nightmare for another- adults and children are all different and one size can't possibly fit all.

This one-upmanship is on the rise- BF, parenting styles, buying choices. Its horribly anti-feminist. Its actually anti-general human kindness.

Most recently I was on the receiving end of a peculiar kind of parent moral superiority. I have one DD and then had two subsequent, very painful and scary miscarriages. Now I understand a miscarriage is relatively common, but one acquaintance airily said, "You really should plan another baby. I've had a miscarriage as well. Its not a big deal."

I was flabbergasted. Miscarriages are on the rise? Or maybe people are talking about it more. Which is very good. But to completely dismiss a traumatic event as "it happens" and worse, give unsolicited advice to get over it...

Women just can't win. There will always be someone on the sidelines picking you apart.

I just hope this acquaintance was an insensitive jerk. Please let this not become a thing among the wider populace.

Blueskies - I was reading ap as Alpha Parent rather than AP Attachment Parenting.
I can see your point - most AP parents (me included) are pretty live and let live. They get so much criticism for BF long term or bedsharing or using slings or whatever that they (we) just want to get on with what works for us.
However on boards I'm noticing quite a few who are very judugemental about others ways of oding things and it saddens me, they are as bad, worse, than the ones who use the phrases 'mummy martyr', 'boob Nazi' etc.

I've been musing. And actually think my stance is hardening a bit.

I think if anyone could link to an AP-style blog or page or whatever where men get similar comments to AlphaParent I'll eat my hat I would perhaps then think 'horses for courses' instead of 'this is anti-feminism'

When men are told not to expect to have a career after having a child
When men are told not to expect autonomy over their body after having a child (note, not even while carrying a child, actually after having one)

Then I'll simply think, hmmm I don't agree with those choices. Until then I will continue to think, nope, this is anti-feminism.

I bet they all give thier babies fruit shoots and Pom bears when no one is looking.

• the worst thing about this kind of stuff is the pressure it creates for the woman themselves. I just hope when they face parenting choices in the future they can feel as confident in thier black/white good/back parenting style. Coz when you set your self up for a fall like that its a long way down.

of course you don't have to justify your decisions to me blue You would probably be surprised to see how 'traditional' my home set-up is, and as I said I was definitely more on the AP side of the spectrum when DS was newborn.

That's not the point though, the point as I see it is there are lots of facets to parenting and it's only women who spend time and energy defending their parenting choices.

I can absolutely, 100% guarantee that no-one has EVER asked DP how DS was fed as a baby. Or asked him to justify his parenting choices. Or indeed asked him why he 'earns the money'. It's all wummins' work and while we waste our energy picking each other apart, nothing else will change.

There's no need to be defensive blueskies earning the money is a necessary part of parenthood too. It is right to acknowledge that, also

Wilson, good for you for 'earning the money' to house your children. Well done, you're a better mother than I. I don't need to justify my decision to be a sahm to you or anyone else.

I wouldn't have the bare faced cheek to describe myself as Alpha

Agreed. I've never subscribed to Alpha Parent. The word unhinged comes to mind. I follow AA on Facebook & find her page must more informative & helpful.

Yes it is anti-feminist. Women against women which is so sad. Like we haven't got enough to deal with without turning on eachother.