OK. Please can we talk about women raping men?

Continuously enthusiastic consent is the only way to go, isn't it. For women and men.

I would still rather do away with the crime of rape. It requires too much definition. It would be foolish to say the prat who stuck his finger up my fanny on the Tube "raped" me, but George Galloway would probably think it worse than the husband who pinned me down & did something very damaging during consensual sex. I'd disagree with Galloway, and so would the law, but his attitude is illustrative of how messy an issue it is.

If anybody does anything unwelcome to another person's body without consent, it's assault. In the context of sex-related activity, the required consent should ongoing, enthusiastic participation. I'm sure the CPS and the courts are capable of determining which sexual assaults are more serious/aggravated/grievous/etc ... My point, I think, is that a more sweeping legislative approach would improve everybody's understanding about the right to sovereignty over one's own body.

I think the law does have the power to alter common perception. I know not everyone agrees.

Great post, WhenThe

Boney, because the UK doesn't have a statutory rape law, I think that neither a male nor a female teacher would be charged with rape in your example.

Thanks for that great post WhenthRed. Lots to think about. I think you've hit the nail on the head there.

I was molested for years.
I have also had sex that I didnt want, particularly. Not rape or anything.
There was absolutely no sexual response from me.
But that is only my experience.
I cant say I have enjoyed reading this thread, but it has been very enlightening.
In a good way in that I have seen things from a different perspective.

I didnt know that about men.
I could understand about assault. Not wanting to be touched and so on.

And arousal can be involuntarily triggered. As a victim of sexual assault, I know personally that what you may not want, your body can 'like'- the same action triggers the same thing, although you are terrified and don't want it for rape.

As a feminist, I believe male rape is true. In the country I've moved to, it is categorised as sexual assault as it happens. Male rape by females can, I believe, happen. Just as rare by gender on the same gender occurs, or women being raped by men can happen. I think it's wrong to act as some people do about it- female on male rape is a tiny minority, but it exists. This reality doesn't diminish male on female rape- and due to male on female rape being the majority, then of course a lot of/most of efforts should be concentrated on this- but I think male rape by females should be recognised. It doesn't necessarily mean forced into penetration- it could mean withdrawing consent part way through or a man having an erection and consenting to some actions, but not to penetration.

emmelinelucas

No, a man need to be aroused to be able to do that.

curlew
"The age of consent is the same got girls and boys."
Thanks
"Technically, women cannot rqpe men by definition."

I know, My personal feeling is that the definition is wrong

"Aroused" does not necessarily mean the person wants to have sex, emmeline. All sorts of things trigger arousal.

Also, the neurology for fear is extremely close to that for sexual arousal & orgasm. Female rape victims often lubricate and sometimes orgasm.

How can a man be forced into sex with penetration ? I mean physically, he has to be able. A man who feels coerced/frightened wouldnt be able to achieve an erection. Doesnt a man need to be aroused to be able to do that ?

Why is it that a female teacher that has had sex with a teenage boy is not a rapist?

As far as I have been able to find their is no lower age of consent for males in heterosexual relationships (please correct me if I am wrong) and the prevailing attitude is "lucky bastard" or similar.

sure sign of readiness - better to have said 'sure sign of consent'.

Yes, I do think the 'hop on' jokes are as bad. A man having a stiffy is no more a sure sign of readiness than a woman being wet. I behaved as badly as the men who've stuck a finger in, found moisture, and gone for it. On the relationships board, we tell women whose partners do this while they're asleep that they're being raped. I was no better than those men.
It's not 'funny', after all.

I'm late for an appointment! Stop being so interesting!

Agreed, I'm not talking about the same thing. It's the first time I've thought about about this properly ... it is demeaning behaviour, and the assumptions behind it are the rapey ones discussed above. So I think it bears examination.

I think the MRAs should be interested in psychological force! Popular wisdom allows that women are experts in mental abuse and, again, women's jokes reinforce that idea.

I've seen scenes in films where men were raped by women, using force. I'm pretty sure it can be done, though I doubt it's done all that often. Unless he's smaller than you, or disabled, you're going to need equipment.

Rapes rarely involve extreme force, though. The threat of it (or sheer headfuckery) tends to be employed first.

"Turn up naked, with beer" --- because easy sex is all any man wants, ever (with added football in some versions.) It's demeaning to men, as well as reducing women to their bodies.

Yes, that's what I did. I "hopped on". Women joke about it. Which is as revolting as men joking about sexual assault, isn't it? I am embarrassed for my former self.

"In my case, it was the very fact that I was so much bigger and stronger than her stopped me using force." I can absolutely see why that was Twibble. Sorry that happened to you.

Hi curlew, I'm not really that brave - it was a while ago and as I say it freaked me out for a while but then time moves on and you move with it. I really only brought it back to mind when I saw this thread.

Going into too much detail seems a bit creepy but in essence it was - we had had a bit of a tired and emotional day. We were in bed together and she was hassling me for sex but I insisted it wasn't going to happen because I didn't feel in the right frame of mind at all. She kept behaving in a way that she knew would arouse me ( very easy when you're 22 and live in a state of pretty much permanent arousal) then when I rolled onto my back to speak to her she suddenly just placed herself on me even though I kept telling her to get off. I remember grabbing her arms and pushing but to actually force her off felt like an act of violence and I couldn't bring myself to do it.

Hope that's not too much detail, I don't want to creep anyone out.

So it just happened, but the relationship limped on for a while - I was really too young and immature to deal with it emotionally or to know what to do next. I hope this isn't too crass a comparison but for me it felt like having your house burgled - for a while you feel invaded and violated, then it just goes into the memory banks and gets forgotten. So I would certainly never link it with the terrible and life-changing assaults that I know many people have sadly experienced. It's just an anecdote that I thought was relevant to the thread.

DH never fought back either. He is very anti-violence (having been brought up by a severely abusive mother, which no doubt conditioned him to end up with an abusive wife too).

There is also the fact that had he defended himself, he could have ended up getting arrested as more likely to leave a mark (him being stronger than ex) - I would've thought that is a common reason for men not fighting back.