OK. Please can we talk about women raping men?

Sigmunde have you read the piece on there about gang rape in india?

I think that something bad or scary might happen to people reading that site - it might be triggering, upsetting, and undermine their faith in human nature.

'I know 'scary and bad' and don't need reminding of it, thanks.'

You've lost me here, not sure why you're upset, but apologise for any unintended offence. Was simply referring to the fact that people on here refuse to check out links to MRA sites, I wonder why not, is all.

female on female s.a. is vanishingly rare. There is very little demand for support services for that, otherwise feminists would address it. otoh male on male sexual assault is quite common, and many men need help to preocess that when it happens. Thankfully there is help available for men in that position who need it.

SF - I didn't say I wouldn't check out your link at all. Though I'd accept NT's glancing of it. I know 'scary and bad' and don't need reminding of it, thanks.

'It seems to me that male on male sexual assault and violence would be just as hot a topic on a site that is about compassion for men and boys.'

I haven't looked for that topic on AVFM, as I thought that the OP was about female rapists, although female on female sexual assault is not a hot topic on feminist forums as far as I'm aware, so maybe it's not an explored topic for either.

I've no idea why you wouldn't check out my link Pan, nothing scary or bad will happen you know. It's simply information. Would you not want to check out Jezebel or Feministing?

I'd have no idea about the topics there curlew so I'll take your word for it!

As other have said there's a world of difference between rape (legally def) and really embarrasing 'sexual assaults'. As a slim, pretty, shy young thing and working as a waiter in two establishments I'd get bottom pinched and touched up generally by drunk women, ironically to whom I was serving the fuel to their loss of inhibition. Essentially tho' I never felt it would go threateningly further afterwards. And a few other scenarios when younger.

More relevant is the times when I was 'taken advantage of' by a partner fairly often when I wasn't 'up for it' at all, but just accepted what was going on to get it over with and go to sleep. I'd still though would not place that in the category of 'rape' - the power dynamics are v different.

Does 'it' re male rape by females happen frequently? I'd say bollocks, and it's merely a silly ploy to point out the simple possibility of an equation being satisfied. When we all know it never is.

I do think that with a lot of relationships, especially among young people, there is plenty of coercion both ways. I also think that both males and females are well capable of poor behaviour when it comes to sex. These sort of situations are not generally reported / told to anyone though so figures on male on female vs female on male are going to be impossible to find.

These issues need to be addressed in schools, about mutual respect, active consent, mutual pleasure and so on to combat these messages. The current situation is bad for boys, girls, children who are not heterosexual and all the rest of it.

If men want to talk about their experience of sexual violence at the hands of women then of course they must do that and certainly if there are gaps in the law / problems with people coming forward then they need to work on that much as has been done with female and child victims for years.

As to whether female on male sexual violence is as prevalent as male on female or even male on male - figures are hard to find, the stats that are available and my gut say not. DV is often linked to sexual violence for example and many more women are killed by male partners than vice versa. Although I know the MRAs dispute figures like that as well.

But sigmunde I read one article and it made me feel so ill I don't really want to explore further, which is why I asked if you had seen anything on there.

It seems to me that male on male sexual assault and violence would be just as hot a topic on a site that is about compassion for men and boys. But is it talked about? I don't know and am interested which is why I ask.

Check out my link then curlew.

Well I just linked to the one article, so you didn't have to look through the rest of the site. It was specifically about female rapists. AVFM is probably the main MRA site, certainly the largest and most informative.

If you want answers about all things MRA, without having to ask questions, it's pretty much the place to go. It also has a wiki section. Even if you completely disagreed with all of it, you will have a better understanding of MRA issues. Plenty of feminists read AVFM.

OP, I'm really not sure that male rape IS a key part of the MRA 'agenda tbh. There's quite a few other things that are probably more prominent.

I'm not familiar with that site sigmunde and don't want to have to trawl through it, do you know what they have to say about male on male rape - are there any articles about that?

I did have a quick look but I got as far as the article about gang rapes in India which was just horrible and I don't really want to search there any more.

www.avoiceformen.com/women/teach-men-not-to-rape-ignore-women/ Plenty of info about this subject here.

There is also the possibility of pregnancy when a woman is raped vaginally, which I think it historically why it has been considered a separate crime.

Opps, crossposted with twibble. I'm sorry it happened to you, and grateful that you've posted.

many will say then why the need for an offence of rape at all and not just sexual assault regardless of gender. I could be one of them. I like what Canada has done.

There is a massive issue here, imo, which is that the very same myth about male sexuality is used to blame rape victims and to ridicule the idea of women 'raping' men. That myth says men are always up for it. The other part of the lie, too, damages both sides: men are up for it; women withhold it.

In my much younger days, I've been guilty of 'jumping on' a partner who didn't want to have sex. OK, I got off again due to protest, but I didn't realise how wrong I'd been. (In my defence, all my relationships had rubbish boundaries.) When I did that, I was assuming "he'll love it once I've started" - which is as insulting as hell, not to mention the exact same thought attributed to rapists the world over.

I think it probably does happen quite a bit. What about older women, who abuse positions of trust to get sex with young males in their charge?

I'm not 100% convinced the experience would be as traumatic for most men as it is for most women, because penetration can be more injurious. Of course, women sometimes penetrates a man's rectum during sex and, if this was against his wishes, they are guilty of sexual assault. And men who are committed to virginity - or even fidelity, assuming levels of cheating are not the issue here - might well feel their lives had been ruined by unwanted intercourse.

...and fuzz, sorry

Thank you sinister, I appreciate that.

I was thinking of similar LaLa, in that it is seen as normal for women not to want sex all the time in marriage (especially after children), but a man who doesn't is seen as faulty. There are lots of understanding threads on MN about sex drive differences but I don't think that reflects the view of the general public, it's not something that's talked about.

DH has often felt like a total freak among male friends for hating porn too.

Sorry that happened to you twibble.

That's horrible for you Twibble.
And it's horrible that you think you'd be laughed at - sadly I think you might be right there. Probably for the reasons LaLa says above. I am glad you were not brought down by it.

I'm a six foot four fourteen stone man and I was raped by an ex-girlfriend. Or seriously sexually assaulted, if the pedantic would prefer me putting it like that. It was forced penetration anyway. And if happened to me I dare say it happens to others.

I suspect it is hugely under-reported. I've never told anyone in real life. They'd laugh.

I also suspect it was nowhere near as traumatic for me as it would have been for a women though. It was irritating and disgusted me I can't pretend it ruined my life or anything.

A number of my male friends have woken up with a woman on top of them or cajoled into sex despite making it clear they did not want it.

I think it's probably more common than you'd think.

I imagine that some of the assaults (woman to man) happen out of spite or aggression.

But, I would imagine that many of the assaults are women not realising that they have gone too far because they falsely believe (due to culture and gender stereotypes) that men welcome any sexual attention at all times. I don't mean to minimise the impact of the assault on men or justify it at all, just looking at motivation.

The word 'frigid' is never used for men, men are often portrayed as sex obsessed (many need to gawp at tits in the newspaper everyday), the familiar issue of men complaining about not getting enough sex from their partners etc. It creates the trope we are all familiar with of men constantly lusting after any woman that's not in a burkha and women begrudgingly allowing sexual contact from time to time (or having it taken by force or coercion). So women groping/touching/assaulting men may seem to the woman as if she is 'treating' the man and it may not occur to her that he really means 'no' when he says or indicates it.

I reiterate, NOT a justification, just an idea of a reason.

Breaking down gender stereotypes so that being a man doesn't mean 'sex-obsessed' and both genders are taught to respect personal boundaries.

That's horrible for your DH Fuzzpig

It is interesting that no one denies that a physical male response is not an indicator of their consent. Which is correct of course. But if there is no physical damage to a raped woman, people assume she must have responded physically and therefore consented.
Or am I even comparing like with like here, we're pretty aware of these things on the FWR board rather more than society in general.