OK. Please can we talk about women raping men?

... MRA views on male on male rape ... They apparently focus on female on male. If they care about men then why ignore ... violence of men on men, including sexual violence ... they don't actually care about men, they really only care about hating women.

This does, annoyingly sadly, seem to be the case.

OK, I shouldn't have said 'billions'. I was aiming to convey 'a very large number', obv.

'They apparently focus on female on male. If they care about men then why ignore the extremely prevalent violence of men on men, including sexual violence. It doesn't make any sense. Ergo they don't actually care about men, they really only care about hating women.'

As feminists focus on male on female. One in 3 lesbians experiencing partner sexual assault is pretty prevalent too, wouldn't you say? Ergo they don't actually care about women, they really only care about hating men etc...

Maybe both feminists and MRAs need to broaden their horizons?

Another really good reason for not reading a site you don't like the sound of is so as not to give the buggers the "clicks" to help fund their activities.

And that was the only one I read. God knows what else in on there.

Did you read the piece about gang rape in india on your website SF?

I don't think you can point people to a website which prints stuff like that, for education on other topics, and expect people to go along with it.

'I see we've decided to have a go at Sigmund's fraudulence instead'

Well it's a lot easier to have a go at me than think about an uncomfortable topic.

There are only 7 billion people in the world - so a little under 3.5 billion women. That means we are all abusers? That seems a little strong.

Incidentally the reason that I was asking SF about MRA views on male on male rape is because I haven't seen it talked about much. They apparently focus on female on male. If they care about men then why ignore the extremely prevalent violence of men on men, including sexual violence. It doesn't make any sense. Ergo they don't actually care about men, they really only care about hating women.

No we. Just me.

Yes, I'm a big hairy man troll. Or I have a different opinion, which on here is construed as trolling.

It's the latter, in case you're wondering.

I think I might be uncomfortable with this discussion going down the road signposted "But what about the menz?"

I have no doubt that men who are raped by men suffer intense shame & fear, probably even greater than that suffered by women who are raped by men. I can't say I spend a lot of time studying this issue but, when I see them, I welcome shame-breaking initiatives. That particular question, however, is directly equivalent to an important feminist issue, and the answer - stop male rapists raping - is the same, albeit differently nuanced.

As a hetero woman moving in gay circles, I certainly experienced sexual harassment/assault by gay women. I've also witnessed straight women harassing/assaulting men, and have been harassed by gay men for being straight. People often are quite horrible & entitled, regardless of their gender & sexuality. All of these are matters for concern, but they don't strike me as overwhelmingly urgent in the way that rapes by men do.

MRA discussions, in general, tend to strike me as whining & desperate to kill feminism by claiming equivalence (never going to work!) But they have real, strong points to make that I think are downplayed by feminists. The 'rape' question raised by Curlew is one of them - sexual abuse, let's say, which I believe is a problem, and is fully intertwined with the male-on-female equivalents. Another is verbal, emotional, and financial abuse. I could pass days calling up examples from my everyday life. "The MRAs" aren't lying about that! It's all very well invoking perfectly valid historic & political causes for such abuse, but that doesn't excuse the billions of women abusing a man right now.

I wish men's and women's rights movements would sort things out enough to campaign together on the big issues. But they won't.

"What a pontificating prat you are."

One of my finest features!
night SF

yeah okay.

Yes, just overall, SF the items you post and the opinions you espouse contradict, in an almost polar nature, things that I experience and observe about how RL is lived and experienced by the vast vast majority of men and women, and have done for quite a while. So I've learned to not take up your invitations.

Pan - I'll leave you to your genuflecting in FWR then, just make sure you scrape your tongue every now and then so it doesn't get too icky

SF - I'm not upset at all, sorry. I'm just choosing to not read stuff you post, as I know what will be in it, and it's dull, inaccurate and uninformative. I don't need to step in poo to confirm it's poo.

I am surprised at the low numbers of male/male rape there.

Maybe they need to do some outreach.

Oh well I think I just answered your last question.

On the other part.

My views are shaped by by own experiences, which tie into the experiences others on MN talk about (not just on FWR), and the stats also support this view.

There have been some women on here who have talked about being sexually assaulted by other women, and they were met with compassion. The number of stories dwindles into insignificance though, next to the sheer volumes of women who have had multiple situations / things happen with men.

As an aside, when I was in my 20s I used to occasionally go to a gay club which had a women only floor. I didn't have to be alert for grabby hands in there - the way I did in hetero clubs, or for that matter in bars, pubs or even on public transport - from men.

That's just how it has always been for me. And the stats seem to bear out my experience, and the stories of my friends IRL and many many on here tell the same tale.

'Do you really wonder why Sigmunde?'

Yes.

'The Santa Fe Rape Crisis and Trauma Treatment Center is among many around the country to acknowledge that while same-sex rape comprises a small percentage of rapes overall, it does in fact exist. The SFRCC details information on both male/male rape and female/female rape.

As SFRCC explains, ?Because many people define rape at penetration by a penis, woman-to-woman rape is not acknowledged or taken seriously. But in fact, it is estimated that one out of three lesbians have been sexually assaulted by another woman.? '

Hardly 'vanishingly rare'.

Do you really wonder why Sigmunde?