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Original poster

This got me thinking

34 replies

GetStuffezd · 31/08/2013 07:41

I was in a pub the other night and there was a group of youngish women in their early twenties and one gay chap who was extremely camp and seemed to be "acting the part" if you get me. He was very much centre of attention. At one point he said to one of the women, "and you can move that useless flap of leather you call a cunt and get us a drink." Cue hilarity from group.

I honestly feel like I've aged somewhere along the line because I felt a bit cats-bummy, which I NEVER do!

It just got me thinking. This guy could only have got away with such a comment because of the persona he presents. A man who came across as more "macho" would have been slaughtered for it! Also, the reaction of the women made me think. Again, maybe I'm getting old but I just wouldn't find that kind of comment funny any more. Maybe I'm over thinking, maybe it's not even a gender issue, but it got me thinking. Please don't think I'm in any way homophobic, I'm 100% for everyone being able to identify as they choose. I must admit though, that loud people acting in a camp way do grate on me.
Any thoughts?

OP posts:
Pan · 31/08/2013 17:40

In the context I'd probably rely on the judgement and reaction of the group of women it was said to, who obviously didn't think it was woman-hating, rather than usurping their sensitivities - snatched snippets of conversations are tricky.
A dear friend of mine was a little similar (without the loudness) and pushed all sorts of boundaries and conventions, as a second nature.

SPBisResisting · 31/08/2013 17:25

It sounds vile tbh

LRDPomogiMnyeSRabotoi · 31/08/2013 17:24
Grin

I'd quite happily gurn unappealingly at them.

Original poster
GetStuffezd · 31/08/2013 17:22

Ah I see - sorry, sleep-fuzzed head not doing that logical processing thing!
There seems to be a generation who think that anything done with 'irony' is excusable
This - I think is what grated me most. It's the whole "Yeah, as a joke " idea.
On a slightly different note, I've just done a cats bum face in the mirror and it's truly hideous - must not do in public!

OP posts:
LRDPomogiMnyeSRabotoi · 31/08/2013 17:08
Confused

Sorry, I don't follow how it could be a suggestion of that.

This sort of thing that you overheard, and the view that it's somehow clever and witty to get away with what is (as basil says) plain misogyny, seems to me to be related to the whole ethos of gender studies, which has become very fashionable. There seems to be a generation who think that anything done with 'irony' is excusable. They have an image of what someone sexist (or racist, or homophobic) is, and it's very different from them. So they think when they say things like this, it must be a form of parodying sexism, and therefore funny and transgressive.

I've sat through people telling me, quite earnestly, that this sort of action is transgressing the established paradigms of gender activity, and therefore is somehow liberating.

I think this is bullshit.

Original poster
GetStuffezd · 31/08/2013 16:55

Interesting to hear other people's perspectives, thanks.

I don't think you are being homophobic, but I would trace this sort of thing back to the 'gender studies' bunch, whose politics are pretty much incompatible with second wave feminism.

I don't understand the suggestion here - could you explain? I hope it's not a suggestion that my views are in any anti-feminist?

OP posts:
BasilBabyEater · 31/08/2013 16:33

I think it's bog-standard misogyny.

LRDPomogiMnyeSRabotoi · 31/08/2013 12:11

I can imagine in certain contexts a young straight man getting away with exactly the same - but it'd be based on the same premise, that this is a really witty form of transgression boring old gender roles by parodying misogyny, which is, like, hilarious and shows how far we've come.

It's not dissimilar to people who make deeply amusing racist jokes in an 'ironic' way, but would hasten to explain to boring fuddy-duddies like me that it's ok, because their black friend finds it so funny too.

I don't think you are being homophobic, but I would trace this sort of thing back to the 'gender studies' bunch, whose politics are pretty much incompatible with second wave feminism.

comingalongnicely · 31/08/2013 09:02

You're right, it's peoples perception. Although one point that is stressed in regards to "isms" is that it doesn't have to be the people directly involved that classify it, so if you thought it was sexist, it was - no amount of camp will disguise that.

As you say, if a young man had gone up & said that in a loud Essex accent, the pub would have been a sea of cats bums.... And as for the loud camp thing, I really enjoy it, it's almost an art form - but it does get tiresome (I'm a viewer here, not a participant!!)