This got me thinking

So, to get back on to your point!

I think there are two different issues. The first is why they found it funny. I think some people do find that kind of thing funny and will enjoy it from anyone they consider sufficiently amusing. It is hard to say something about it if they are in a public place, and generally it has to go on for a while and be repeated before anybody does. I hate situations like that, and generally I find it easier to say something if it is about a group I'm not part of and is upsetting somebody there from that group, or if it is in front of kids, young people, or somebody who is on their own. It mostly happens to me on trains.

The second issue is what you do about behaviour like that if it is from somebody you know as a friend, or a friend of a friend. I fortunately haven't met gay men who make remarks like that, but there is more low level stuff that I have ended up putting up with in situations like pubs, not because they're gay and so I thinks it's okay, but because I put up with low level stuff from all sorts of friends of friends because otherwise I'd always be the person complaining.

That comment was crass and in bad taste whether said by animal, mineral or plant - IMO woman, straight or gay man who said that would all have been equally glowered at by me. Yeuch!

It is misogyny.
Does not make you homophobic to have disliked it GetStuffezd.

I think the whole 'camp' thing is a bit of a red herring - loud, overacting people grate on me, wether they are gay or straight; just seems v anttention-seeking tbh.

Horrible comment to make; worse so in a public place.

I am quite happy to agree to disagree! Thanks for being so pleasant about it.

You can dislike whatever kinds of behaviour you want. There's nothing wrong with that. We all dislike various entirely inoffensive things that groups of other people do. But your dislike for something associated with gay men and your belief that somebody doing it is 'acting a part' sounds prejudiced when brought up in the context of your very valid complaint about their misogyny.

And while it's no big deal in a conversation on a message board, it can be a big deal when we have to make judgements about members of minority groups' wrong doing when any of us occupy positions of power. So I think it is worth mentioning.

And nobody said that you were a homophobic person. What has been said is that you sound homophobic, just as he sounded like a misogynist (although his remarks were much, much worse).

I've found this helpful for understanding the distinction:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=b0Ti-gkJiXc

I'm pretty sure that I made it clear that it isn't acceptable to make racist or sexist comments. But there is no need to criticise the non-racist or non-homophobic elements of their culture that they are enjoying in order to point out that their sexism and racism is unacceptable.

You have to treat people equally even when they have done something wrong. The man should be criticised for making a sexist comment, not for 'acting a part' or being too camp. It isn't suddenly okay to criticise somebody for participating in gay culture just because they made a sexist comment. The bit he should be criticised for is the comment.

That's because they are your friends and care whether or not you are personally annoyed.

The equivalent to your post would be something like this... 'I went out with my Northern, working class friend. She was the centre of attention and was really acting up her Northerness with lots of hamming up her accent and using lots of Geordie dialect, then she made a vile, racist 'joke.'

Now, it is the case that there are particular aspects of racism that show themselves differently in Northern culture than Southern culture, and the way that manifests itself needs discussing. Just as there are particular kinds of sexism that manifest differently in gay and straight culture, and that needs discussing. But making out a person enjoying their culture is acting a part or should behave in another way because it grates on others is irrelevant to that, and sounds prejudiced, and detracts from the point you are making.

I do think the comment was misogynistic. It's vile.

But it is the case that camp behaviour is associated with homosexuality when men do it. The way you've phrased it does sound homophobic. I don't really understand the 'acting the part' bit.

"one gay chap who was extremely camp and seemed to be "acting the part" if you get me ... This guy could only have got away with such a comment because of the persona he presents ... I must admit though, that loud people acting in a camp way do grate on me."

His comment was horrible, but you do sound a bit homophobic to be honest.

The comment sounds very misogynist to me as I read it as the guy calling her vagina useless because he is not interested in it. So her body is useless to him because he doesn't want to use it, nevermind that having a body with functioning sexual organs is useful to her.

I agree gay men get away with things because they're seen as harmless and feminine so they couldn't possibly be misogynists right?
But straight guys also get away with things because they're just being guys and women who complain are too sensitive etc.

It is possible that they are a group of people who trade insults and the woman it was directed at makes equally awful remarks to him. The point is surely that they were in a pub where other people can over hear, so he shouldn't have said it.

How kind of you, then, please, keep them coming, I begin to blush at your sheer flattery!

I must point out it wasn't dishonesty led me not to realize you were being complimentary, though ...

See, it wasn't a backhanded compliment. It was a genuine one and a sense of the absurd that you'd produce such a dishonest line.
Overreaction? again. Okaaay.
I'll happily step away from this table tennis scenario.

In your posts, where else?

Thanks for a nicely backhanded compliment.

Can you try to get it through your head that I disagree, in this instance, because I find your views quite unpleasantly misogynistic and entitled, rather than because I want to 'manipulate' anything.

I think sexism can be compared to racism and homophobia. Quite why saying so has sparked off this overreaction, I am not sure.

"I find it sad that you simply want to tell us all you know better and we're wrong to want to talk about it" - just..what??

where on earth is there evidence of any of that? The OP describes a circumstance and offers it out for opinion. It's even sadder that someone of your intelligence comes out with that pathetic little attempt at manipulation to sideline a view you disagree with.

Or do you honestly believe that there is such a fundamental difference between women being discriminated against and any other kind of discrimination, that it's 'silly' to compare them at all?

She overheard, in a public space. Which is the point.

I'm sorry if the examples are too difficult to take in - they just seemed obvious parallels to me, which I thought might help you follow what was going on.

If you prefer, think about it like this. Why do you think it's not ok for the OP to have a view, but it's ok for you to pretend you know what these women (whom you didn't even seen) must have felt?

I have been in that sort of group, as obviously other women on this thread have been. And it is actually quite difficult to challenge someone who talks like that. It's much easier to laugh and be part of the in-crowd who all think it's so terribly funny to be misogynistic.

That is a dynamic that is fundamental to oppression of all kinds, which is why I compared to a couple of other situations.

You don't look to the people who're the butt of discriminatory jokes and ask them 'did you enjoy that joke' while the people making the jokes are looking on - obviously. So, inevitably, we end up discussing this stuff at a remove, in terms of experiences we had in the past, or things we overheard, so we can think about why this dynamic exists in our society.

I find it sad that you simply want to tell us all you know better and we're wrong to want to talk about it.

The OP wasn't the intended audience, who laughed - she overheard.
But thanks for the additional, tangential, silly and entertaining but wayward trip to far far away land.

Presumably the OP is female, too, and did think it was woman-hating. A pub is a public space.

Incidentally, I think this stuff about 'usurping their sensitivities' is all a bit silly. Would you also think it would be terribly, terribly rude to have got cross with dear old South Africa during apartheid, because after all, it might be usurping their sensibilities to protest? Or would you say today that it's really not on to have an opinion Russia's legitimized homophobia, because it might be usurping their sensibilities?

It's not pushing boundaries (which sounds nicely revolutionary and exciting) - it's just misogyny.