MN mentioned in Guardian article about feminism

Exactly. Such casual, pseudo-common sense support for discrimination. And from the Guardian of all places. Disheartening...

YY, absolutely. I thought - oh let them know, then you can see if they mind...was just so WRONG. They don't get to mind and legally they need to not discriminate. No mention of the protection from discrimination at all.

It's no wonder so many women feel pushed out of the workplace.

MoaningMinge: what also made me angry about the article you cite is the advice itself. There are very good reasons why women are not legally expected to tell their employers about their pregnancy until much later in the game, so why oh why make her feel guilty and advise her to "come clean"? If it's your legal right, you shouldn't feel guilty at all about using it! And the employer has absolutely no right to resent you if you don't tell them.

Not to mention, the woman in question was only in the "very early stages" of pregnancy. Advising her to tell her future employer (and even possibly to turn down the job) when she is only a few weeks pregnant is not only wrong, it's also potentially cruel. So many pregnancies fail. And then what, she's left with a broken heart and the lovely task of explaining what happened to a bunch of strangers? or with a broken heart and a job turned down for nothing? Disgusting advice.

I read Wifework before I had children. Now that I have them, well. It should be on the reading list at school.

I read it the same way as annie.

I am not a mother and I may never be one, but I do think MN is brilliant because you can't really post on here and not be aware of the issues around motherhood and feminism. Those are really important issues and they always will be, whether or not an individual has children.

Was a good article, the comments are daft though.

Before being a mum most of my hobbies and skills are in traditionally male areas, I was constantly up against the inequality, so I knew it was there all too well.

But oh god it turns up the dial being a mum as well! That just piles it on.

I was reading it in the bath. It made me so cross that it really spoiled my bath I checked the date - it was published yesterday, in 2013 not 1973.

It was the 'your overpowering instinct, at least initially, may be to stay with your child. And that's an instinct that has to be followed.' that made me It has to be followed. Yes, not to worry about whether or not you might actually have an fascinating, valuable, well paid career that keeps a roof over your head, or not.

I am currently a SAHM. I am not a SAHM because I am following my mothering instincts. I am a SAHM because it is bloody impossible to get childcare around a job that needs shift work.

MoaningMinge -

Sunshine, I don't think the article was trying to suggest the only mothers really "get" feminism, though you're certainly not alone in drawing that conclusion. I read it to mean, rather, that many women don't truly "get" feminism until they become mothers, which was certainly the case for me.

I didn't read the comments because I read it in the paper, but I thought it was a great piece.

Then in the same paper, same day - www.theguardian.com/money/work-blog/2013/aug/31/dear-jeremy-work-issues-solved this 'work dilemma'.

I make a point of never reading comments under articles. I never post them either.

Fair enough that the comments are always bollocks (see Lewis' Law), but I don't generally expect that bollocks to be coming from other feminists!

Ah the comments! Yes I expect it's mainly a load of bollocks. They usually are on anything like that so I don't read them to avoid elevating my blood pressure.

K8, the article does indeed say that MN is full of feminists, many of whom are mothers. But the comments are full of weird whining about MNers (see my comment above)

In fact, the comments have left me very angry and disappointed with many of the feminists who posted. Lots of whining "but what about meeeeeeeee? This article doesn't match my reality and is therefore must be saying that only women with children are real feminists. Mumsnet needs to learn about intersectionality and welcome non-mothers and men".

Sounds like a lots of the shit MRAs spout when they blame feminism for not addressing their personal gender-based issues.

Oh I didn't read it like that. I thought they were suggesting the opposite. I'll have a look in the morning with fresh eyes.

Yes, I realise that Kate. But the comments on the article seem to think your average MNer shares that view.

Annie the quote about men and make up came from a Netmums survey last year. The article refers to it but doesn't condone the view.

Urgh. Considering that feminists should have plenty of first hand experience of people criticising feminism with no real understanding of what feminism is, they sure seem quick to criticise Mumsnet without ever visiting it, or having any real understanding of what it's about.

"Baby is best at home with mum" and Daily Mail readers indeed. Obviously mixed us up with Netmums (who according to the article aren't feminists because "they like men and makeup" [rolls eyes] .

So much cluelessness all over the internet

Good article. It sort of skirts the point about motherhood bringing these points into sharp focus for so many women. Until I had children I didn't feel discriminated against because I was a woman. Now my life and that of my family is hugely dictated to by my biology from my maternity leaves, reduced career opportunities, enforced financial dependence, pregnancy conditions, breast feeding and child care issues and so much of it is avoidable with changes to government policies regarding leave after the birth of a baby, working conditions and child care. Once a position because entrenched it is very hard to change it but I'm damned if my children are going to experience these restrictions so I plug away taking heart and inspiration from the whole of Mumsnet and elsewhere.

I have had to refine my feminism to have some acceptance of my situation but I am still a Feminist and will be until such time there is complete equality of the sexes. I am glad I have Mumsnet to help shape my views so that I can make sure my children have real choices about how to live their lives free from gender restrictions as much as possible.

Fourth wave? Bring. It. On.

Right i dont know whos modding the comments on that article but my comment got removed.
Apparently someone on there is allowed to say we are all Daily Mail reading right wingers (a quick glance at the recent webchat with Jamie Oliver will show that we are not) I mentioned this and got deleted but the remark calling us all bullies is allowed to stand.
I smell an agenda there.

Wow, great article. So heartening to read something that doesn't just pigeonhole us as thick witterers...yes, Matthew Wright, I'm looking at you!

Never read the comments!