Is it possible to be a good Christian at the same time as being a feminist?

RufousBartleby I'm sorry for my silly post after your serious one, I am a slow typer.

I think it depends on how you feel - if you feel happy in your church community you should still go. I think churches are there to help ( those who want this help ) to make us better people. It doesn't work for everyone imo but i think that's what they should be for. We can go there to pray, think, be with other people and help each other.

Do you think you shouldn't because others might think you have sinned but you are not repenting?

Not helpful but was just reminded of the Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes vow ... Can't remember exactly, but I think it included him being told she needs a pan and a comb and her being told she should keep him content.

Different strokes for different folks...

I'm a feminist and a Christian, and, yes, it's a matter of interpretation and understanding passages in the context of the whole of Scripture, deciding in a reasoned way what to give more weight to and asking the Holy Spirit to help us discern what the overarching message of Scripture is, not picking and choosing.

This sort of thing is why I wish that there was better adult education in the Church on Biblical textual stuff. Otherwise you just give people power to wander around quoting verses willy nilly to justify anything.

The Church has its institutional problems because it is made up of human beings, and they bring all their own prejudices and flaws with them. But that doesn't mean we can't work to change the Church as we work to change the rest of the world as feminists. And of course Church =/= Christ.

I find this really interesting.

I've been struggling myself OP since having a termination at the start of the year.

I've always been pro-choice as a feminist, which I guess was at odds with the CofE view that it is a 'moral evil' - but actually being in the situation myself has thrown it in to sharp relief.

I don't feel that I made a mistake or committed a sin, which I guess would make my action acceptable from a Christian point of view. I haven't lost my faith, but no longer attend as feel like I shouldn't be there.

Interested to hear what other people who consider themselves feminist Christians would think about this, as I haven't spoken to anyone about it in real life.

Agree with Marcheline that the Bible was written in the context of its time. Most European Christians don't take the first book of Moses to be literally the truth.

You're not 'living in sin' if you're living in love.

If we were in biblical times and you were living together you were 'married' - modern marriage is just a social construct for the protection of property.

If you're in love, live together and believe God is in your relationship then you are 'married'

^ that should be since Chaucer's...

Macheline - I don't agree with your friend when she takes the clause about submission in isolation.

The reality of that verse in my relationship is that we submit to God, at no point have I ever had to submit to some humans will. It's just not required.

There are many reasons the verse is written the way it is but I'm just sticking to the 2 clauses being joined.

And it's totally fine to have problems with verses, I myself get all aerated about Lots wife and the one where someone was supposed to allow his daughters to be raped over his male visitors.

This has being going on sine Chaucer's day. The Wife of Bath' Tale is interesting to say the least...

I think if you then add Grace and Law as concepts into the mix it begins to get more interesting...

The thing is, when you haven't perfect people to begin with a lot of leeway has to be given every which way. As a wife I would seriously consider my husband's views on matters, it would have to be something I felt very strongly about to go directly against what he thought. In practise I am very persuasive though! I don't think there has been many crunch moments...in fact I usually win...

OP I've sat through that sort of sermon in an evangelical church. It's bobbins. The point of that passage for me is that there is a picture for both men and women of mutual service and sacrifice. I don't obey my husband. I do what we mutually agree is right. If we disagree I do what I think is right. I do that, still committed to our marriage. We have both given things up for the other in love.
Of course you can be a Christian and a feminist. Many of us are

Then stay Summer

I'm in the bloody liberal democrats and its the same thing - I don't agree with national government policies but the community I work in and the work we do is important locally.

Church is more than just a national or international institution - you can affect change from within, there are many campaigns in the Catholic Church for change.

You can love your church, your friends, your priest without loving the wider institution with the numpties in it

This is something I really struggle with. Was raised a feminist and have come to Christianity in the last few years.

The passage about submitting to your husband is something we came across in bible study as I said that I absolutely, cannot consider myself to be 'sub' anything (submissive, subservient etc) to my husband. I am not below him. I was told by another woman that I absolutely am below him; that it was something she struggled with in early marriage but that she submits to him now. He makes all the decisions in their home - he has a say, but ultimately it's all down to him. And this is how a good, Christian wife should be.

I don't believe that at all, and many women I have spoken to since don't either. I truly believe in Christ and God. I also believe that He is a loving, just God who would not discriminate between His people - female/male/gay/straight etc - and that the Church needs to change. The bible was written hundreds and hundreds of years ago, so there are parts of it, particularly in John's letters, that I think are not relevant to being a modern day Christian. The gospel is important. The story of Christ is important. But rules of living from 400AD are not rules for living in 2013.

Sorry if that was too long. As I said, I'm struggling at the moment and it's something I'm trying to work out.

Lauriefairycake, you very possibly are lucky enough to belong to a liberal church (CofE, Evangelical and so on). Any woman I know who was born into Catholicism was taught from the beginning that women are less than men, there are no female leaders in Catholicism, there are no female ministers/priests/bishops. There is only inequality, secrets and lies. I envy you your faith in a way, however I recognize the freedom you have in your religion and the beauty of being recognized as an equal, regardless of gender. The lack of that, I think, is what non Catholics should recognize in these discussions, as the OP is a catholic which is why I'm focusing on that. I feel reading these replies that there's an element of "your church loves you, of course you are equal to men". Nothing could be further from the reality in Catholicism.

I believe in God and think women should have equal rights. No problem at all in my mind .

I find it hard to imagine Jesus having a point of view that women should not have equal rights?

Well I'm British and we've fucked over and exploited every race and animal going to get where we are.

And I'm still a liberal Briton

It's the same thing for the 'church' - I didn't live then. The living church I'm in now is a home for my feminism.

There are women in the same leadership roles as men, equality all the way through.

The church is a many headed thing, I'm not part of the wing that exploits others or demeans women.

I'm a feminist and a Christian. It doesn't mean I agree with everything the church says. There's loads that just doesnt fit with what I believe being a Christian is all about. When I was debating confirmation with my vicar he put it like this. 'When you married Mr Crunchie you weren't promising to agree with everything he thinks and believes, when you're a Christian you don't have to believe everything the Bible says.' The church needs feminists to update their outdated views.

Jesus definitely recognised the importance of women. Look at who he spoke to after His resurrection!

"Am I right that you're saying that because you think people who believe in God are er... Deluded?

Did you say that before? Or am I misremembering?"

Nope, never said that. I think they are wrong, but that's not the same thing. And anyway, you can be wrong and/or deluded about things and still be a feminist.[Grin] But i don't you can't be a member of an organisation which has been so instrumental in the oppression of women over the centuries and also be a feminist.

IME the evangelical wing of the church is very literal in its translations of the bible. Personally it isn't for me and I don't believe it's how Jesus would have thought or lived or guided.

Again, what church was this - doesn't sound like my liberal high anglican one. The marriage vows are: for the avoidance of sin, the procreation of children and mutual comfort. Brides don't have to obey.

I believe men and women are equal.

Could not agree more with what Laurie wrote:

"I'm a feminist and a Christian, works for me.

I don't believe the passage is meant to be taken that way and modern, liberal Christians don't believe literal interpretations of the passage quoted."

I think you need to read some Bible commentary on Ephesians 5 and 6 to understand the full context of those verses and how they can be applied in a modern setting.