Dustin Hoffman on being beautiful enough

I think it was moving. Thank you to those that have pointed out how he seemed to think that beauty was a choice, I hadn't noticed that. Re - how annoying it is that a man raises an issue and the world listens: I agree with that generally but I feel that is not so relevant in this case as the realisation of the message is uniquely tied to the fact that it was realised by a man from a woman's unique perspective and that this particular message is not something that men can usually experience, realise or relate to (because they are not women.)

I also think it is was moving because he realises that he has missed out on the companionship of women (rather than flirting/dating).

Re the scene where he boldly asks her to go to bed with him as that is what she has told her "female" friend she wants a man to do - but he is, of course, rejected. I like that scene because, as well as being very funny, it also shows that, fundamentally, he cannot really understand what it is to be a woman because he has not "lived" long enough as one. He missed the subltety and humour in what she was saying to her "female" friend and took it literally.

i hear you scallops - now a successful man says women are getting a rough deal everyone sits up and notices?

i agreed it's an important video to watch, and it's great that it's out there, but really should we be holding it in such regard? it's still promoting the fact it's taken a man's voice to speak up...

This is an interesting critique of the video. I have to admit I am not overly impressed with a man noticing sexism when women have been pointing it out for centuries and largely getting ignored.

I took it as "I am an interesting woman with a lot to offer the world e.g. opinions, kindness, intelligence, etc, but I will be overlooked by the vast majority of men because I'm not good looking enough to capture or hold their attention. It's only my looks and nothing else that count."

NeoMaxi & Zynnia I wondered that too!

namechangeguy What lesson? That men do not flirt with less-than-physically perfect women (patently not true, unless all the women in here with male partners are supermodels)? Or that millionaire film stars do not flirt with less-than-physically-perfect women (true in a lot of cases I would imagine, but I have no proof)?

Not dating or flirting, other social and professional interactions.

size I took it the same way as you.

yeh, I think he thought that briefly to begin with. "First make me a woman, tick, now, make me beautiful!"

I wonder....if when he asked to be made more beautiful, he thought that it is a matter of choice? That women can by dint of regular grooming and the correct makeup, all look gorgeous!?

MyHumps Hahaaaaa. DP is currently watching the telly in his pants. I don't think he'd know where to start with Hoffman.

NCG, it was "I think I'm an interesting woman" that led me to feel it was an admission of how he thinks he would have been viewed as the opposite sex. That, and the fact that he expected to be beautiful! I took it as him saying that for a woman to be successful she has to be beautiful. He expected to be beautiful because he is successful.

Not saying I'm right. It's just how it came across to me.

I though it quite poignant - his realisation that women only had value to him if they were beautiful and it appears to have been quite a humbling lesson for him that he would never have been a beautiful woman and would therefore have been invisible to men like himself.

As for being brainwashed, isn't he really just referring to social conditioning ? Fair play to him, it would have been easier not to consider why he had the discomfort he did and just dismiss the whole experience.

I had heard this years ago. It must be an insight for men alright because they're not dismissed or overlooked for being unattractive.

i agree MyHumps, it is certainly about brainwashing and conditioning, but for me, he used that as a get out

i've watched the video a few times and am also guilty of at first dismissing it as another piece of acting - i'm such a cynic these days

Size, I thought it was more of a realisation of the women he had met and overlooked purely because they weren't 'traditionally beautiful'. This seemed to be the gist of what he said to his wife.

At the beginning DH talks about how life would have been different if he had been born a woman.

DH is a successful man, renowned and admired.

I think he was expressing how he would have been less successful as a woman because he lacked beauty. That was the lesson he learned IMO.

I thought it was moving.

previous actions, not feelings

i was with him right up until he said he had been brainwashed

he took no responsibility for his feelings, it was all someone elses fault

'I definitely got that impression flora (that he learned his lesson), but it's scary to me to think that it took that for him to see! I can't think feminism has time to go around dressing every man in a dress and wig'

What lesson? That men do not flirt with less-than-physically perfect women (patently not true, unless all the women in here with male partners are supermodels)? Or that millionaire film stars do not flirt with less-than-physically-perfect women (true in a lot of cases I would imagine, but I have no proof)?

Thanks