'Cock tease'

Brilliant, EW.

I was just going to post what buffy said.

In my younger days I would dress up and flirt if I felt like it. I also enjoy sex. The fact that I flirted then didn't want sex meant I had, I suppose ' decided upon further investigation not to have sex on this occasion.

To dismiss this as cockteasing makes it seem as though I somehow owed him for his time. What about my wasted time eh? You were judged and found wanting. Not my problem

I am not surprised you are rather shocked at your partner's comment if he is usually an enlightened type

That comment is 101 in the victim-blaming manifesto

I would be appalled by an adult male saying it. I thought only 15 year olds thought like that.

Deliberately manipulative behaviour is shitty, so yes, I'd agree with DH to the extent that his scenario is possible and that behaviour is deplorable.

I'd disagree with him that it is frequent. And would be very wary if (rare) examples of anti-social manipulation were extrapolated to cover the (for more common) occurrence of someone discovering that after spending a bit of flirt time with someone decides he's not so fanciable after all and disengages.

It is manipulative. It makes me really sad (and cross) that if you look at the way people respond when it's the other way around, it's still about making the woman feel bad. If a woman says 'I met this really great guy, he seemed really interested, very flirty, but then I suggested sex and he said no', she will get told 'oh, he's just not into you', or 'you probably misunderstood' or 'oh, maybe he's married'. She won't get 'OMG, how unfair and prudish of him'.

It's funny that women are the ones seen as manipulative because the most manipulative behaviour I've seen has been from men trying to get their leg over.

In fact I think that the word "cock tease" is often used as a form of manipulation, a way of making the woman feel guilty and cave in.

Once this Danish guy walked me home and when I didn't want to invite him in he told me that I was being a pricktease cos it was the custom in Denmark that if you let a guy walk you home it meant that you wanted to have sex with them. Have never met a Danish person to verify! But I'd say that was very crafty and manipulative on his part.

Lucky for me I said no but one poor girl fell for the guilt trip though. He dumped her the next day and she was heartbroken.

Yes, absolutely agree scallops. It is about boundaries.

Sorry cross post with LRD. Obviously the first part of my last post refers to the last paragraph of my first post.

In fact that is it! Some men want impunity to cross women's boundaries. When women say no and create that boundary these men try and make the women feel shitty for creating that boundary, so they'll think twice about saying no the next time.

It's all about controlling women and their behaviour.

Yeuch!

This annoys me.

Some people enjoy flirting.

Some people enjoy flirting and then sex.

Sex isn't anyone's 'right'. So what? Sure, it's a bit disappointing if you discover you're one of group 2 and the person you were flirting with is group 1, but boo hoo. You need to learn that not everyone is precisely like you.

I've come across loads of blokes who enjoy flirting but don't then want sex. I dunno why people seem to think this doesn't happen. It's not rocket science: sometimes you fancy a nice dance or a drink, but you don't actually want to go home and shag.

Manipulation is a loaded sexist word in itself. It is far more often applied to women and often by controlling abusive men. A woman is 'manipulative' by just saying no to a man. It is pure and simple misogyny to suggest women do this.

I think you nailed it with As if female behaviour should automatically be viewed through a penis-shaped lens. It is male privilege to think that if a woman is dressed up it is for them. If they are talking to them (I remain unconvinced that all these women are flirting) it must mean they are 'up for it'. If they are flirting does that mean they have entered into some type of contract with the man? Are men so weak that they can't just have a flirt and a laugh? There is also an element of having put the time in to having a conversation with the woman therefore they should get something out of it Sense of entitlement. And for some reason they feel a removal of their male power when a woman says no. Awwww.

My question would be, why don't men flirt and then not have sex? Why are some men expecting every flirtatious encounter with a woman in a short skirt expected to end in sex? Or maybe they do have flirty conversations just because they enjoy it? In which case, where is the equivalent derogatory male phrase?

But I am not sure why your husband cares about whether women do this? Is he frightened one of these supposed women are going to manipulate him into not having sex? What actual harm is done by flirting with someone and then not having sex with them . Why does he, as a married man and therefore not really in a position for women to manipulate into not having sex, feel the need to use the phrase and categorise women as such?

How can your DH tell the difference between "deliberate manipulation" and other matters eg not liking the guy enough once they've chatted, needing to get the last train, coming out maybe with a view to having a snog and getting a guy's number but that's all?
What's the goal of the "manipulation" in his eyes? Having drinks bought, or something?

I think it comes from madonna/whore thinking.

So a woman is either up for sex with any man, any time, or is not up for sex with any man at all.

The thinking is that a woman can't be in between ie maybe up for sex if she gets on well with a guy and doesn't feel like going home when her mates want to go or whatever. If she is like that.

Do you think your DH sees it that way?

It is an unpleasant phrase, and I agree that women should be free to dress and talk to men as and when they please.
But DS has had a lot of bother with girls and young women being flirty, being over-familiar, touching him and innuendo that he finds very annoying.
He is tall, dark, handsome, artistic, intelligent and reserved.
He is also an Aspie.
He has friends, both female and malewho tend to shield him from a lot of the irritation, but he gets pissed off at the snarly reactions of 'FFS are you gay or what?' when he doesn't respond in an interactive manner to the 'cock-teasing' behaviour.
Last time he said it was like having a dog sniff your crotch, all you want is to be left alone but some dogs are just rude and won't behave themselves.
DD is also very Aspie and handles males being flirty, being over-familiar, touching her and innuendo with firm confidence. But her verbal skills are fantastic.
So I don't know really, some members of both sexes find it hard to draw the line when interacting, some people think that certain behaviour on the part of others gives them the right to feel entitled, or to sulk if not.
It's a very complex area of human relationships.