How do feminist mums of dds square the circle of bringing them up to feel they have the right to wear what they want, have a positive attitude to sex, etc AND stay safe at the same time?

Thing is as a girl/young woman, there is always something.

If you don't wear a short skirt, for boys to judge, there will be something else for them to remark on

Blonde hair
Big boobs
Small boobs
Too tall
Too short
Too fat
Too thin
Too pretty
Not pretty enough
Too clever
Not clever enough
and so on ad infinitum

Even if all the females in the country wore below the knee skirts, people would still find something to judge on and say to them.

I have blonde hair and got loads of shit about it as a young teen
My friend had big boobs and got loads of shit about it as a young teen
There's always something. This is the problem with trying to follow any "rules" to protect yourself - there aren't actually any rules. And so you could go around in circles forever trying to work out what to do to avoid the nonsense (and worse) and never ever come up with an answer, because there isn't one.

I hope that reads as "she thinks she is to blame" n not that she would be at fault

There is absolutely no correlation between clothes and rape (if that was the staying safe reference). And I am worrying about what to say to my dd when she gets older. I think that when we give messages that what you wear impacts on how others will treat you - it is victim blaming - ie if someone is alone on their way home, a bit drunk and wearing a short skirt - (a reasonably rare form of rape) - she may then not report it because she didn't follow te "safety" messages of society and therefore she was to blame.

However I don't want my dd being badly thought of so would try to discourage such clothing ( but realistically she either will or won't choose certain clothes in any case)

Interesting discussion.

OP, I'm sure you haven't but I really hope that you haven't used the word slapper to her.

Does she have a uniform skirt or can they wear their own clothes?

I am not so certain that anything like teen culture actually exists now. Music is controlled by corporate money swindlers, modern culture overrun with images of women making themselves look "available" to men, politics liberal and all about every choice being an equal individual freedom with no wider political consequences.

If young women are wearing what is fashionable you can bet that it isn't driven by any kind of sub-culture anymore but driven by the prevailing cultural hegemony. Everything has been turned on it's head, looking like you are available, self-esteem dependant upon how attractive you are, which of course is very much more influenced now by porn culture than Paris fashion and finally the realisation that if you don't perform the function of eye candy to the male species you are persona-non-grata.

Not much help, sorry. I would try and talk to her, maybe offer her some books to read. Beauty and Misogyny is often recommended on MN.

Free here www.feministes-radicales.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Jeffreys_Beauty_and_Misogyny_Harmful_Cultural_Practices_in_the_West__Women_and_Psychology_1.pdf

Would it be suitable for 13 years? only you know your own dd.

I would perhaps stay away from the sexual side or 'you look too tarty' kind of messages that may arise in conversations as stick to 'what you're wearing is inappropriate' line if the situation arises? Thats possibly a better tack and teaching you can't dress like you're clubbing all the time and the importance of dressing appropriately, as my mum did with me.
I was raised as basically I don't wanna see your bum/boobs put it away.
When I went to school the girls who had none of that kind of intervention often grew up lacking a basic sense of appropriate dressing and when 6th form arose with no uniform its was a sight to behold.

I think we are being unrealistic if we don't tell our girls some unpalatable truths about how certain styles lead them to be perceived.

I am not victim-blaming. I just think that "a predator is a predator no matter what" is over-simplistic, because a. girls can suffer marginalisation and aggression in ways other than overt physical attack, and b. you can point out that some people will take a certain view of a certain look without actually blaming the person looking like that. You can be as rude and blaming of the person doing the looking as you like - "some dickhead men will think you are stupid if you dress like that, but I know you're not" - but still the men, however dickheadish they are, hold disproportionate levels of power in women's professional lives.

I have not worried about this with my daughters yet as they are too young, but I have worried about this as a manager of young women. I have seen them marginalised and ridiculed because of how they look and not been able to do anything about it because my gentle approaches to the subject (deliberately gentle in order to allow respect for their autonomy to dress how they like, and recognising that they are not actually breaching any codes which would call for a disciplinary approach) have just resulted in blank looks and "Have I done something wrong? No? Well it's ok then".

If we pass the message to young women that, because they have done nothing wrong (they haven't) everything is ok (it isn't), aren't we failing them? (serious question. I still worry about certain cases of this where careers of very bright young women have properly stalled because they are regarded as bimbos and I wonder whether I could have helped more)

This is interesting. I have 2 older boys, one of which is grown up, the other is 13 and just got his first girlfriend. I also have dd who is 6 and I do so worry about the additional pressures on girl teens now compared to when I went through all that.

In other words, I have nothing helpful to add, but am watching with interest.