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Not 'news' to anyone here, I know, but scary article about motherhood and academia

241 replies

MalenkyRusskyDrakonchik · 17/06/2013 15:53

www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2013/06/female_academics_pay_a_heavy_baby_penalty.html?fb_ref=sm_fb_share_chunky

I thought this was interesting, though hardly surprising. I find it quite a big concern given how much research we're constantly being shown, that 'proves' women are all [insert stereotype here]. This article looking at why so many women don't progress in academia - and in particular why mothers don't - perhaps gives a good reason why we might take some research with a pinch of salt: it's largely done by men and childless women.

OP posts:
Potol · 19/06/2013 10:52

Academic. Two years into a Lecturer's post. Spent a lot of time in the US. Husband also an academic. Offspring is 1.5 years old and I took 7 months mat leave. Yes, my research has slowed down because a lot of what I do requires thinking and theoretical insight (in the humanities) rather than just archival research and I have v little thinking time. DS is a reasonable sleeper but once he is in bed I do all the admin stuff/answering emails because I don't have the headspace to think about the theoretical stuff.

On the other hand, DH is super hands on and an equal parent and is the one to take off when DS is ill etc. We also try and tag team if a big deadline for a research grant or something is coming up by whisking DS away somewhere for the weekend to let the other one work.

I have a US PhD and the reason DH and I relocated was partly for family reasons but mainly because motherhood and academia in the US is virtually incompatible. First of all, both of us finding jobs within commuting distance of each other would be hard. Then universities barely offer mat leave. My friend went back at 3 weeks with her baby in a sling and would lecture like that. The tenure clock keeps ticking and there is no allowance for the sheer exhaustion and difficulty of the first year of motherhood. I read the article and sympathised with parts of it, but it was US centric.

Finally, in my department there are a LOT of male academics with children who do a substantial chunk of the pick up/drop offs. Most of their wives have less flexible jobs and so the department culture is one that is sensitive to working parents. It is interesting though that the change in attitude is because the four senior male professors have childcare duties. I wonder if people would be so accommodating if they were women. Somehow men being equal parents is to be 'celebrated' while we are 'just' mothers. Anyway, the upshot of this is that all meetings finish by 4/4:30 and people don't mind if there is a childcare related emergency.

MalenkyRusskyDrakonchik · 19/06/2013 10:45

bad - I know for a fact that's true about male academics wanting to step back too.

I think unfortunately, in individual situations it can be easier for men. I think in lots of contexts there's still a certain amount of 'aww, how sweet' when men say they need to get up and pick up the baby, whereas for women it's more 'oh, leaving the meeting early Hmm!'. But then I think if you're a man who does the sort of amount of childcare women often do, it's probably not better.

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marfisa · 19/06/2013 10:40

And Xenia, you are so predictable, aren't you? You think that feminism is a one-size-fits-all set of choices. Amazingly, mothers (and fathers) do not all want the same thing. Some of us would rather get less publishing done and have less prestige if it means more time hanging out with our DC in the garden. Some of us would rather earn less money if it means that we actually care about/love/enjoy our work, to the extent that when we retire we will carry on doing the same research for the joy of it.

marfisa · 19/06/2013 10:36

I agree that the situation is far worse in the US than it is here. Not that conditions in the UK are perfect, but in the US it's awful. I had a tenure-track job in a big state university in the US and as a state employee, I was entitled to two weeks' paid maternity leave. Two weeks. The Family and Medical Leave Act, passed under Clinton's administration, was a big deal because it enabled women to take a whole 12 weeks off after giving birth if they wanted it (unpaid leave of course). There are ways to negotiate more time off if you're an academic - you can use accrued "sick leave" or use valuable research/sabbatical leave for motherhood. But the attitude is very much that after having given birth, you need to be back at work as normal as soon as possible. Oh, and childcare options are much more limited as well; it's very hard to find nurseries and childminders (my university had a nursery, but they would only take children once they were potty-trained. So no babies or young toddlers).

I could tell a whole string of anecdotes about young women academics being told off by senior colleagues and heads of department for procreating (and older women academics can be dreadfully sexist to younger ones in this regard).

I know one high-flying academic couple who relocated from a small, prestigious US liberal arts college to the UK, because they had had one child in the US and found the logistics of work/parenthood so difficult that they felt that if they stayed in the US, having a second child would be impossible. So now they are academics in the UK with two children.

The UK system of 6 months' paid mat leave (if you're been working for your employer long enough) and 12 months if you want it is something that I and other American women find amazing. Yes, taking those breaks can still have a negative effect on your career, but at least your right to take them is enshrined in law.

I have a huge gap on my CV now due to having moved to the UK for family-related reasons and not had a full-time academic post - instead I had a badly paid part-time post and two DC in part-time childcare. In the US, I think my career would effectively be over. In the UK, however, I just managed to get a very nice full-time post (it's not permanent, but still, I'm over the moon about it). The hiring panel "bought" my argument that I took time off from research for motherhood and am now ready to plunge into intensive research again. I know I'm very lucky, as posts in my field are few and far between, and the future is still uncertain, but so far I have found UK colleagues to be very supportive of combining work with family, in a way that my most of US colleagues never were.

There is still lots of work to be done though. My DH is an academic too, quite a senior one, and he makes a big point of taking time off when the DC are ill, etc. Senior colleagues, men especially, need to create a culture within academia where scholars are seen to be making parenting a priority. Then junior colleagues will feel comfortable taking time off for their ill DC too.

bigkids said, "I know a LOT of dual academic couples and in every single case it is the woman who has gone part time or soft pedalled her career post DC."

That's so true. Damn. But increasingly I also know male academics whose academic spouses spend a few days a week working in another city (because it's so hard to find academic jobs in the same place) and those dads do all the childcare for those days each week. Or the same scenario with gender roles reversed. Not that a commuting academic has an easy time of it, but doing the whole morning/evening/bedtime routine with small children while one parent is away is not easy either.

badguider said, "I bet there are some male academics out there who wish they could change their hours and step back a bit to spend runs with their families but due to the same sexism that holds women back that would be seen as even less acceptable for a man than it is for a woman."

Yes!

Sorry to have written such an essay. Blush

PromQueenWithin · 19/06/2013 10:17

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GrimmaTheNome · 19/06/2013 10:11

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badguider · 19/06/2013 08:09

I bet there are some male academics out there who wish they could change their hours and step back a bit to spend runs with their families but due to the same sexism that holds women back that would be seen as even less acceptable for a man than it is for a woman.

UptoapointLordCopper · 19/06/2013 08:02

I would say that some equate ambition with material gain, and some equate ambition with social status, and some equate ambition with climbing the ladder. I equate ambition in how much I can get people to pay me to do what I like. Grin

AutumnMadness · 18/06/2013 23:04

bigkidsdidit, sorry about the papers. I feel your pain. I hope you got yourself a big G&T and are sitting somewhere outside now enjoying the summer evening.

UptoapointLordCopper, I really admire you for publishing while working part-time. And your situation sounds great to me. I think quality of life is just as important as promotions. No, it's more important. Some will say that this is women not being ambitious enough, but I will say that this is women being sensible and not chasing heart attacks.

UptoapointLordCopper · 18/06/2013 21:16

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MalenkyRusskyDrakonchik · 18/06/2013 21:03

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Xenia · 18/06/2013 21:01

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MalenkyRusskyDrakonchik · 18/06/2013 20:49

Yes, I do accept that is a genuine worry. I don't think this particular brand of woman-blaming is the greatest solution.

I don't know how general it is, but something I worry about is PND or other conditions you couldn't predict after the birth. I wonder how many people end up going part time as a response to circumstnaces, rather than planning it from the off?

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bigkidsdidit · 18/06/2013 20:45

Yes not a very tactful post Grin

However...

I know a LOT of dual academic couples and in every single case it is the woman who has gone part time or soft pedalled her career post DC. Perhaps we should examine why we do this even when we start out at an equal level when we get pg?

MalenkyRusskyDrakonchik · 18/06/2013 20:28

We band of buggered.

No, wait, I've wandered onto a different topic.

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UptoapointLordCopper · 18/06/2013 20:24

We happy few. Smile

MalenkyRusskyDrakonchik · 18/06/2013 20:23

Happy losers, then. Smile

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UptoapointLordCopper · 18/06/2013 20:19

We are all losers. Grin I quite like this way of life TBH. The conventional route bores me.

MalenkyRusskyDrakonchik · 18/06/2013 20:04

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GrimmaTheNome · 18/06/2013 20:01

I'd not heard of Athena Swan (I'm not in academia) - sounds good! Some of you might also be interested in the Dorothy Hodgkin fellowships - though obviously there aren't enough of these to solve the problem.

Going back to the OP, I'm not sure its totally the case that research is 'largely done by men and childless women' - a lot of actual research is done by the 'second tier' mentioned in the link. The postdocs and part-timers - who tend not to have the teaching load (and maybe less time spent filling in grant applications, from what I remember of my time within a lab). But for sure, not the status and job security. Some manage to carve out extremely successful careers - and full lives - by less conventional means - but probably by being exceptional compared to most chaps. Ideally, I think, there should be routes for people to take either approach - mothers who are head of department, fathers who are part-timers if they prefer that balance, whatever regardless of gender.

UptoapointLordCopper · 18/06/2013 19:42

I earn enough even when part-time. Wink

And I do everything I like. I enjoy my life, my children (even when they are being horrific), I don't do all the housework because I employ a cleaner - yes, I earn enough even as a part-timer. I have a good pension. I play my piano and I read. What's not to like? Plenty of people progress up the ladder because that's what people do. Do you ever question the meaning of life and success Xenia? Hmm

PromQueenWithin · 18/06/2013 19:35

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Xenia · 18/06/2013 19:32

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UptoapointLordCopper · 18/06/2013 19:21

AutumnMadness That's me that's me!!! (Phew! Recognition at last! Grin) I am 60% and research active but I haven't been "successful" - no grant, no promotion. But then I'm doing research that I like, publishing things I like, teaching a course that I like, and have time to play the piano and deal with my bloody lovely children (sorry - they are a bit trying today). I don't want the situation to change so have been reluctant to make any effort for promotion.

bigkidsdidit · 18/06/2013 17:20

I'm the same as both of you - very focused at work, only do 40 hours a week which is unusual, but no chance of less than full time, really. I don't mind too much, I love work and my hours are great.

Am depressed again now though, just had two papers rejected in one day, ffs :( not sure what my chances of winning a big fellowship are now :(