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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

i don't know what women are. do any of you?

143 replies

chibi · 15/06/2013 15:26

i am asking honestly. womanness is not a consequence of chromosomes or external morphology. it is about feeling you are a woman.

i don't feel like a woman. i don't even know what that would feel like.

everyone i have spoken with has assumed i am a woman, and i have done things some people associate with women like menstruating, being pregnant etc.

i used to think that because of my external morphology and the whole giving birth thing, and people's assumptions and my upbringing that i was a woman but now i am not sure.

if you are whichever gender you identify with and feel you are, and i don't feel like a woman, (i don't know even how they feel) but am i one because i also don't feel like anything else?

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chibi · 15/06/2013 16:17

i do have a vagina, ovaries, a uterus etc and my reproductive organs have proved functional.

there are people walking around with the same who are men though. there are people walking around who have a penis, and produce sperm who are women.

i have done some things people associate with beibg a woman,other thibgs which they dont but one constant is that i have never thought to myself 'ooh i feel all womanly womany woman woman'

the closest i have ever felt to feeling anythibg was being pregnant, giving birth and breastfeeding, but i did not feel like a woman, but rather an animal, specifically a mammal (not in a bad way, it felt amazing and i coukd watch nature programs and think, comrade! lol)

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Thumbwitch · 15/06/2013 16:15

Bugger, my brain got sidetracked - what I meant to add was that I have often been told that I have a very male attitude, male brain, "a good bloke to go drinking with" (although not quite a "ladette"), had male friends but not many boyfriends. I don't identify with many feminine traits; I do stuff I like to do, regardless of which gender it is typically associated with.

sleepyhead · 15/06/2013 16:13

Actually, that should be womanness is something that you only notice if you do feel it but your biological sex is male - of course, that could just be me and most women may feel an innate sense of "woman".

Thumbwitch · 15/06/2013 16:12

Do you mean that you don't self-identify with things that other people perceive as being "womanly"? I mean, when I was young I was never "girly", I was very much a tomboy and things that are the external trappings of "womanhood" never really bothered me that much (makeup, fashion, shoes etc.)
As an adult, they still didn't. But I did discover that I could look good, and wanted to do so, as a woman. I never tried to hide that I was one (except that one night when I missed the last train home and had to walk 3 miles at 2 in the morning), unlike a friend of mine who is a lesbian and who really despised any "womanliness" in herself.

I can't really answer your question either, as I'm not sure what it is that makes you feel that you don't know what being a woman is.

SusuwatariToes · 15/06/2013 16:11

Now you've got me thinking. I don't really know if I "feel" like a woman or not. I probably do because I have never questioned it but I really couldn't tell you what it feels like.

sleepyhead · 15/06/2013 16:11

I know what you mean. I've always been confused by the whole "woman trapped in a man's body" because of it. I have no innate sense of "womanness" that I'm aware of.

I'm not a particularly feminine sort of person - I do things that other women do, but I do things that men do too. I think in a way that women are meant to think (stereotypically), but I think in a way that men are meant to think too.

I can only assume that "womanness", if not biology, is something that you only notice if you don't have it. Confused

(honestly, honestly, honestly not meaning to start a trans* bunfight)

MalenkyRusskyDrakonchik · 15/06/2013 16:09

Sorry, 'maybe' to chibi.

I think my issue with the sexual organs thing is that I would bet none of us is that 'typical' woman whose body does exactly what the biology textbook says. So it's quite hard to identify with that totally.

MalenkyRusskyDrakonchik · 15/06/2013 16:09

Maybe.
TBH I am fairly sure if everyone treated us equally it'd be no more interesting to be female than to happen to be someone right-handed, or brunette, or whatever.

But then I do get what people mean because when I started thinking about all of this, I was thinking there must be more to it than just genetics or chromosomes because otherwise why would I constantly be aware of gender? The more I look into history and law and language, it seems obvious why I would be aware of gender. But until you look into it, I think it is very natural to assume it's an internal thing rather than a set of external pressures.

UptoapointLordCopper · 15/06/2013 16:07

"...as soon as you come into contact with other people, you notice it." Yes. So gender is a social construct. What about sex? What is a woman but that you have a certain type of chromosome and certain organs different from a man's? That's it, isn't it? Then what you feel has not much to do with your sexual organs and therefore not much to do with whether you are a man or a woman? Confused Confused

chibi · 15/06/2013 16:03

the world treats me as a woman, is that what you mean?

i do tend to asume that people whose external morphology looks like mine have had similar experiences, and i feel more sympathetic towards them than i do to men

is that what being a woman is?

???

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MalenkyRusskyDrakonchik · 15/06/2013 16:00

I think I very much feel like a woman. Not when I'm on my own, but as soon as you come into contact with other people, you notice it.

chibi · 15/06/2013 15:53

how do you know you are women and not nothing or something else?

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chibi · 15/06/2013 15:53

maybe i am asking, those of you who know you are women (because you feel it), what is it you feel?

are there lots of other genderless people like me out there? am i some kind of freak?

back when i thought i was a woman because of what my body looked like and what it did, i wasn't confused about all this- i assumed i was a woman.

this is wrong, and since i don't feel like i woman i am v confused

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AKissIsNotAContract · 15/06/2013 15:52

Maybe gender queer is the term you are looking for.

You've put that Shania Twain song in my head!

tribpot · 15/06/2013 15:49

So what do you think you're not feeling? Or is that impossible to answer?

chibi · 15/06/2013 15:45

no, i don't think so, so-i don't know how they feel, either!

it's just i have never felt gendered. the world seems to see me as a woman (and i don't mind) i have done woman-y things (eg given birth) but have never felt like a woman feels whatever that means

since you have to feel like a woman to be one, i guess i am nothing?

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SusuwatariToes · 15/06/2013 15:38

Do you feel like a man? Or just not like anything?

I can't say I've honestly thought about my "womanness" it sounds like you're feeling existential.

Sorry I can't be more helpful.

chibi · 15/06/2013 15:28

i am not trying to piss anyone off, i honestly don't know and have been wondering for a while

those of you who are women, how do you know, is it obvious?

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