To be baffled at the male assumption that random women will wish to engage in sexual inuendo

Isn't that the dream Parsley?

I want my DSS to be loved and respected after DH and I are gone even though he'll never be able to have a job.

I want DTD to be braver than I, and say 'that's not on.'

I want DTS to do his share of the housework and childcare for the child/ren he created. I want him to say 'That's not on.'

Mainly, I want my DC to never need to say 'that's not on.' Which is why I'm trying to be vocal about my feminist beliefs. DH shares (most) of them, but I cannot believe the amount of male friends who get irrationally angry when I merely point out the changed the topic and spoke over me. So small compared to the bigger issues but these are genuinely gentle, normal men like my DH. But I've noticed things from I'm spoken over to teased a tad more to being asked to brink in the drinks to bigger things like I'm always the last to be served.

It all seems so subconscious that when I point it out they get truly upset. It just enforces my view of how strong the stranglehold on society by the patriarchy is.

(I have more male than female friends in case anyone was wondering WTF I was on about.)

Luckily My H has truly earned his 'D'H title by listening, researching and learning. We were all ready pretty even footed in our relationship (so I thought before I discovered radical feminism) But now he actually genuinely agrees with me on issues like sex workers. Particularly when he realised it didn't make him 'smug' men were staring at my chest and he realised it wasn't okay to expect me to change my attire for an example. He still disagrees on certain points, but I feel very lucky after all the abusive relationships I've been through.

End Brag/Rant.

I find a part of me pities the (average KIND) menz because of the patriarchy. DH was nervous for me to take photos of him with DTD in the bathtub for example.

Society needs to wake up. Other than men in power, we all suffer from this fucked up ideology. Especially women.

Interesting, Special...I know what you mean about expecting better of women, I'm the same. I think it is a kinda sexism. Wouldn't it be good to get everyone to behave better, and raise the standards!

You ever need a virtual shoulder Pip, feel free to PM me. I know it's not much as I'm hardly as articulate and well educated as lots of these amazing women, but I'd like you to know I'm here and I understand someone who should support you fully in your trauma looking blank and thinking you should be 'grateful.' It's like being attacked all over again isn't it? :(

Sorry for the ambiguity, I just don't want to say who in public in case she's on MN, I'm recognisable.

Pip I'm so sorry. :( I've also been attacked and the laid back attitude of women scares me more TBH. As horrid as this sounds, I virtually expect men to talk down to me/make comments about my appearance.

I expect better of women. I don't know if that makes me sexist or what, but it really upsets me that fellow woman shrug. Or worse - If it was their husband/boyfriend who attacked you- actually use victim blaming language rapists use. :(

Special - I was sexually assaulted in the street last year. My DMum said "Well at least you know someone fancies you".

Yay Parsley!

Interesting out of all the rule breaking posts on MN, only ever the ones about certain goaders who happen to be male are deleted.

Crybaby

I maintain my position about sexual harrasment. I'm not being vain but I am a conventionally attractive woman. But what upsets me even more than the filth spewed at me/suggestions of affairs/even bum pinching is that women tell me how LUCKY I am!!??

WTAF does THAT say about society/patriarchy? :(

Agree the default should be not to do it.

I remember first encountering it at work, first job, with older boss. Was yeuch.

I saw it Special!

Hope someone saw my message before it got deleted.

Oh yes, sorry about that, hully. Selfish of me

But how can the menz have their little yfronty frissons with that sort of attitude, Hecsy?

So selfish

Surely the default should be to NOT behave like this?

If it is possible that the person will not like it and also that they will, you cannot possibly offend by NOT being sexually suggestive whereas you can possibly offend by being sexually suggestive.

So it would make sense to me that you don't bloody do it! That way you can be totally sure that you are not going to piss someone off.

When you get to know someone, and if you develop the sort of relationship where mutual banter of whatever nature is acceptable to both of you then fair enough, that's between the two of you.

But to someone you don't even bloody know? Why would anyone do that?

This reminds me of the "Women's bodies are permeable" thread, where someone brought up the idea that women's bodies are viewed as always open for comment in a way men's bodies aren't. It's something other women do too but in a different way, comment on female celeb's looks and so on.

How can this thinking be stopped?

chub

No, he doesn't assume, he just doesn't care. It gives him a frisson, that is the only point for him.

I like Hully's email.

NotDead is jumping up and down on the elephant insistent that some elephants enjoy it.

NotDead: how can you so spectacularly miss the point? It's like tripping over an elephant and saying you didn't see it.

Do you think you'll do anything more about it, Grey?

hang on isn't 'politeness and respect when one encounters women' part of the same cultural set that 'saved' weak women from 'brutish' males because it upset their 'nerves'.. ??