Mid-career retention of women - "we need better childcare provision"

Well I do have a silver spoon and bank of mum and dad (should I need it). But I still work because that's what I choose to do.

I work because I want to. I enjoy it.I'm good at it.wont be in penury if don't work
see it on mn,the grudging well I suppose if you have to work,as if only compulsion make it justifiable
and yes I am driven.no silver spoon,no bank of mum and dad.just me

Oh yes the "why work when you don't absolutely have to?" type comments
Yet it is assume DH will work, even though he doesn't technically have to

no women aren't less driven than men in career pursuit. some people are less motivated. by career
more likely is societal expectation,habituation drive expectation women give up work
and of course preference,some women don't want to work ft after kids. and some do

anecdotally I've never had jip about going back ft from an male. plenty comments, and the face from women

no one asked my dp if he was going back to work.assumed he was
I got asked at baby group,hv,etc.....why?

I expect it's unintentional but fair whack of your posts feed into stereotypes eg women less driven

It works for me as my dad always looke after us whilst my mum was at work and he never needed any help. My mum and dad would be outraged if dh couldnt cope on his own with our children. Its my normal and always has been.

Interesting thread. There's a thread in AIBU about the doctors issue. I started it there because I was irate!
In my own marriage atm dh earns considerably more than me. This is for two reasons. Firstly he graduated a year before me and started work whilst I had our first daughter a week before doing my Finals and didn't start work until she was 15 months old. The other reason is that (through full time work) he has developed a rare and therefore expensive skill set whilst through part time ish (for the last 5 years I've worked 34 hours over 5 days so I think I should be calling myself full time!) work I've developed a valuable but less lucrative skill set. Domestically we're pretty on an equal footing. He seems incapable of mowing the lawn but loves dishwasher emptying, hanging out washing, bathroom cleaning. I tend to do most of the ironing because he's too slow. We split care of sick children. In fact he probably does more because he can work from home and I can't. Though expensive childcare has not been a barrier issue for me (or him). What has been a barrier for me and I didn't expect this at all was my maternity leave with dd3 which stalled my career. I was acting up in a job before going on leave. Shortly before my leave finished another job came up which I and the man who covered my maternity leave applied for. Interviewing after ten months on leave I was told I didn't do as well as I could have and the man got the job. 5 years later he still out earns me.

Ha, yes, dh is at work today and no one would suggest Ineed any help with my dc. But dh has ready been offered help from my mum and his mum for when I work weekends. Weird.

Yes - as another example of how ingrained it is, my cousin works as something in information services and was seconded to the Olympics last year. Very full-on few weeks, crazy crazy hours getting all the stats collated after every event for the press etc. Even my own mother, a die-hard feminist, said "of course, [cousin's DH] had his mum to help with the kids every weekend" er, WHY? I'm sure in reality he could cope but was not averse to the kids seeing their granny at the weekends so didn't say no on a point of principle :) But why on earth would the father of two 2 year olds require assistance to look after his own children?

However, it is vitally important that we aim for parity for every family, not just where it is possible for the two partners to earn the same amount (not that I think the previous posters were suggesting that was a pre-requisite). I have literally never been asked how I juggle work and childcare, but that's because everyone knows my DH is chronically ill and unable to work, so I have 'no choice', therefore the question doesn't arise. I'm pleased to say that in my current team - where I am, as I nearly always am, the only woman but virtually everyone else has small children too - we are all constantly juggling childcare, home responsibilities and work, despite all of us having a SAHP.

I currently work from home, as a Childminder, full time (50+ hours) and do the bulk of the housework and obviously all the childcare.

DH takes over with our DC when he gets in at 4.30 and does housework at weekends and in the evenings (things like putting on a load of washing and mowing the lawn).

I am in the process of securing a job out of the house to start in September, very full on, 12 hour days and late evenings. DH is very supportive and we have what I hope will be wonderful childcare and two backups.

But oh my god, some people's reactions.

Even the guy interviewing me asked how I'd deal with childcare, and I was a bit icy in my response (that DH woudl deal with all that, I've done it for eleven years and it's his turn now).

My mum and sisters have been well meaning but think I'm mad, and also that it's unfair of me to expect DH to do so much childcare/housework/cooking. Eh? But it's ok for me to do it?

It's a bizarre and outdated concept that the woman has to place childcare and cleaning above all else and that the Man Of The House can concentrate on his career without worrying about all that nonsense.

My partner (older, male) earned considerably more than me when we got together. Our salaries are now pretty much the same.

This didn't happen by magic, but because he was incredibly supportive when I was studying (while working full time) - he did 100% of the housework, I just came home from work & sat down to study straightaway, cups of tea & supper brought to me etc. We also moved several times to allow me to progress. None of the moves were bad for him, either - he did part-time/had a couple of breaks to try out a career change. His salary now is in line with his experience, before it was too low, so his career hasn't suffered by prioritising mine.

Now we have a son, and we've both dropped days so we can spend time with him. I doubt we'd have been able to afford that if we hadn't invested in my career.

The key is IMO that in order to achieve parity, you need to assume that it's possible and not just accept status quo.

I will add the caveat that it's early days, so I don't know if I'll be able to stay part-time and continue to make progress career-wise - we'll have to see. But I don't think it hurts to point out that my partner is looking after baby today - I'm hoping that will shake up assumptions people might make about our division of responsibilities for childcare.

I have a completely equal marriage. The reasons why are:

My husband is not older than me
He doesnt earn more than me
We both work full time
We work round each other and we evenly take leave days for child sickness/sports days etc
He does just as much as me at home and in return I cant say I am any more tired than I was pre children.

I cant say its hard on my family both working full time in fact its really easy as I am far from rushing around at home and I know dh is available to support me 50/50.

There's been a discussion this week about how female doctors are 'wasting their education' or some such by working p-t once they have children. My friends who are female doctors have been unimpressed to put it mildly, although hadn't picked up on the subtext necessarily:

• men have children too. Shocker.
• lots of male consultants work part-time too - but because they are mostly doing private work on their day off, rather than childcare, this is somehow seen as higher status despite the net effect for their NHS employer being exactly the bloody same.

I very much agree that we need to move the discussion past childcare = women's issue and look at other factors such as part-time = career suicide. Are more men being prevented from doing childcare because p-t workers are regarded as second class citizens in terms of career progression? And what other aspect of the macho, presentee-ist culture is preventing childless women from progressing? Let's not forget, the burden of caring falls mainly on women still whether that is children or aged parents. The discussion needs to be much wider.

And btw I think few people would claim women had a greater biological imperative to care for ageing relatives.

UptoapointLordCopper

Beat me to it. I've never wanted children but employers don't see that.

your posts are peppered with appalling stereotypes
it's not hard on a family if both parents work,at all
maybe your world.not mine.we both work its positive,and enriching

no.i really disagree that both parents need to work pt/flexi.thats mc woolly
why can't two parents work ft?what bit of two ft working parents don't you like
I have time with my family I really dispute your presumption I don't if both ft

And also seem to choose higher earning or more ambitious partners which gives them less power in discussions about who does the childcare.

Yes, but why? Is it a biological thing where woman subconscious look for good providers?

And I do suspect if you take two parents, who earn an equal amount, the parent who has recently given birth is more likely to to want to care for the baby, while the other parent is more likely to want to continue working out of the home.

Actually, I do expect my DH to make some attempt at flexible working so he can do some of the childcare. And I know other mums who do too, although it's not yet the norm.

I agree that maternity leave sets a precedent that's hard to break. It sets the stage for mum doing everything, and we feel we still have to do it if/when we go back to work. Even though I have deliberately tried to step back and let DH do more, I've found it tough at times to let him and to stop trying to do it all myself!

And while childcare is an issue for some families, for others it's not. Too much of a focus on childcare as an issue detracts from some of the other, less obvious, barriers that are harder for women to overcome.

Many DPs/DHs are older, therefore earn more.

Whatever, the feminist arguments for many of us DHs is the main earner.

What stopped me going back to work was small rural schools having NO before or after school clubs. Nothing. Very limited CMing places and that's it without family.

With the necessity to travel to any job, no amount of flexibility was going to let the parent doing the school run earn a decent wage.

Biological impulse? What a load of shit.

Prom - exactly. Plus men and women are expected to devote more time to work than is necessary for the job as a factor of competition for promotion and men are able to do this if they have a wife at home who is making this possible. I know lots of men in this situation and most of them are not thrilled about it and would like to spend more time with their children.

women tend to be more likely to devote the most time to childcare. i don't think this is likely to change, because I think it is a biological impulse. i think women are more interested in spending more time with their children, and, on the whole, less driven to fight their way up the corporate ladder.

Absolutely this needs to be tackled as a parenting issue, and not soley a woman's issue. I'm a Dad, and it looks to me that the priority has to be on the children's needs, but the dialogue on this has to be expressed in terms of we rather than she.