Mid-career retention of women - "we need better childcare provision"

I don't think it will ever change until humans can be grown entirely independently of a woman's body, including a breastmilk equivalent that is regarded as better than current formula. Then male & female can be equal in terms of childbearing & raising.

Ideally I want it to be a requirement for every workplace to make potential childcare provisions for each role that can be fulfilled by a person of childbearing age, whether it be an onsite flexible crèche, at a local nursery, agreement with a childminding agency, whatever. Also automatic right to flexible and/or part-time work options if possible for both male & female parents if possible in the work environment. If I had this I would have returned to my career after each DC & not ended up feeling like I am wasting my education (the state paid for most of it) & all the work-based training & experience I got. Are there actually any figures for the costs of women leaving careers & having to recruit in/restructure to cover the loss?

I have 2 children I personally dont think there is a lot of work as no one is ever in.

There is hardly any work involved in running a house if you don't have children.

Which means that when you have children, if one person takes it all on, the other person may genuinely not realise that there is now a lot more being done than there was before.

Also there is hardly any work at all involved in running a house if you wotk full time. Probably 4 hours max a week for each person for me and dh that includes all cooking and cleaning etc. Its rare if our place looks messy when we are both working full time.

Tribpot - I find with dads in their 20s all of them either have some flexibility, do pick ups or drop offs or take time off when their children are sick. I dont know any dads in their 20s that dont as the mums are all at work too.

In answer to the OP I think by demonstration. DH and I have both WOH and SAH at different times. We now do 50:50 or maybe 60:40. For us this is far the best solution so far, the dcs agree. Because this is the environment they have grown up in I hope that both of them will just assume that men and women share childcare.

Yy sleepless

sm opt in is unfortunately unaffordable for many though.

Ideally all would be able to mix and fit according to personality skills etc. And wages / costs would be such that many more people had genuine choice.

Yes exactly.
When my dad said it, i took it as a sexist comment.
But actually, it is a reasonable question, and he didn't say it in a way that implied I should do it, but that someone somehow would need to.

I kind of get the feeling that the concept of house / child stuff actually being work that someone has to do has kind of been eroded. And that bizarrely my often unthinkingly sexist father seemed to have more of an idea that these things amounted to work, than you would imagine somehow these days.

ime,opt out is privilege of the affluent,or those who've built up career/qualifications /marry well
opt out?and do what?my career is structured and hierarchical.
opt out isnt realistic option for all.ive always wanted in,not opted out

who's going to run house is sexist if addressed only to female,inferring house=women work
same question addressed to both,is a query.unless you live longleat no house needs ft running
biggest myth ever sold to women was have it all. not possible.you work ft something gives. you housewife,career gives

So I suppose my point above ties in that childcare / housework is all work and it doesn't get done by pixies.

Certainly I find it harder work being at home than going out to work - but that is obviously different for everyone. Probably if my job was digging ditches with my bare hands - or god forbid working with young children - I would be red hot keen on staying at home. Circs innit.

I am back at work full time now, after working part time for a few years.

I feel great, DH is knackered though and certainly the house is a state, stuff like that is harder to keep on top of than when there was someone here to do it a couple of days a week without the kids here.

I guess we need to make adjustments and farm stuff out more but it is a bit of a shock.

I do think that having both parents working full time is harder than any combo where there is one at home sometimes, just in terms of kind of getting basic stuff done. But if that's what you're doing then you make it work as best you can. When I went back to work FT my dad said "who's going to run the house" which at the time I took as a terribly sexist comment but now I realise he had a point.

As for the OP totally agree with all the posters who have said that childcare being a "women's issue" and strangely the only one ever mentioned are important points.

"I think people need to address challenge their expectation of other women who are parents."

Agree.

"I think housewives do enact a stereotypical role that feeds into expectation women give up work"

Yes. However, mothers are not housewives. To bring up children should not be thought of as "giving up" work, as if all paid work is superior to bringing up children. This needs to be addressed.

"I think women need to be visible and participative at work demonstrating isn't given will quit work"

Yes. Hence the importance of facilitating this. Childcare is only part of it. Partners taking equal responsibility is another part. Part-time/flexi-time is another part. Swiss army knife, not sledgehammer, IYKWIM.

I think people need to address challenge their expectation of other women who are parents
I think housewives do enact a stereotypical role that feeds into expectation women give up work
I think women need to be visible and participative at work demonstrating isn't given will quit work

One of the "good practice" documents I read also suggests that managers for male workers should ensure that they are not stigmatised if they chose "non-traditional" working patterns.

That happens most places they have to let mums and dads equally have time off or everyone would just sue.

It does, but it was incredibly rare to find any man availing himself of this right in the past. Let's not underestimate the social pressure on men not to jeopardise their careers with things like childcare or carer responsibilities - when did you last hear of a guy in his 50s taking time off to care for his elderly parents?

Inevitably attitudes will change the more commonplace it becomes for a guy to say "I'd like to WFH on Fridays in order to do the school run". I think I still have a way to go in my own family; my oldest brother (someone terribly important in a global firm) told me that when his wife (someone quite important in the same global firm) was on business in Europe one time "do you know, I had to leave work to pick ds1 up from nursery because he was ill?" No shit sherlock.

The other thing that annoys me about our 4d/w arrangement is that DH continually gets congratulated for being such a great dad. My mum, his parents, just about everyone, raises an eyebrow and says "isn't it great he's so involved". Yes, I agree it's great but I am just as involved!! Oh, and apparently I am so lucky he is like that. The phrase just grates.

Like others have said, it will take generations for ideas to change. small steps, eh.

I dream of the day that men will also have to "consider their career" when thinking about starting a family

Both parents need to be prepared to make some adaptations / sacrifices

Only then will women have an equal chance in the workplace!

I tild DH to do his share or get out

LordCopper Wasn't there talk about extending the right to request flexible working? Agreed that it would help if people saw it as just a decision to trade some money for a bit of extra time to spend with family, pursuing a course of study, getting to the beach a bit earlier on Friday to go surfing, etc, rather than a Now My Career Is Done, Put Me On Mummy Track Please irreversible decision.

Have had a few folks sound a little surprised, but approving of DP dropping a day for childcare. Some have been young men with pregnant partners, & you can see them getting thoughtful. Hopefully it may encourage them to consider a wider range of options with their partners.

I don't think this should be about parents. I think everyone should have some flexibility to pursue whatever is important to them at whatever stage of life they might be. Do we believe that a happy and fulfilled workforce is an efficient workforce, or is that just lip service? Of course this will take some managing and some give-and-take, but may be it is possible? Am I too idealistic? (Maybe I am. Hey ho.)