Feminism for Dummies.

Probably the opposite of a 'manly man'

Women are the "gate keepers" of sex because its relatively easy for an average women to find a sexual partner than an average man.
My online dating example was just an illustration of how easy it is for women to 'mate'.

I'd be quite interested in knowing what a "womanly woman" is.

The whole theory is most women prefer 'manly' men and most men prefer 'womanly' women, this affects the behaviour of society

Can I rewrite that to say..

The expectation of society, and the way that people have been conditioned, or socialised, means that most women prefer 'manly' men and most men prefer 'womanly' women

We seem to be in complete disagreement about cause and effect.

And as for taking match.com as a model for how we have evolved over the last millenia? There are still plenty of societies today where young women have their husbands chosen for them; they have no choice who they bear children with.

Or really, way less since online dating is a lot less than a generation old.

"On the Origin of Species: An Update for the match.com Generation"

flora because women do chose who they have sex with. Just look at online dating how women are inundated with offers for sex, but its very rare to be the other way round.
That's one example of many that shows women are 'gate keepers' to sex regardless of how you look at it.
Meaning women like taller men, hence women are taller.

The whole theory is most women prefer 'manly' men and most men prefer 'womanly' women, this affects the behaviour of society.
Its certainly an interesting theory than the standard men are bastards, but then you have to ask why that's the case.

However interesting they are, the theories maybe completely wrong.

We might think about the situations humans have faced throughout the time we've existed. So maybe men became larger (but not gigantic) so as to fight more successfully against other men while not requiring an incredible amount more food. And it's an uncomfortable thought, but maybe men are bigger than women so that in any physical confrontation (including an attempt to run away) the man would probably win.

If we really believe Darwin was right, we have to accept that the engine that drives the form of any species is "What makes a given individual more likely to have surviving offspring?" It definitely is not "What makes us happy?" Hence women who were willing to have children, or who could be forced to, were the ones who passed their genes along. And for men, the ones who reproduced were the ones not killed off by the man next door, and who could persuade or force a woman to participate.

Men and women are both growing taller with each generation because of improved nutrition.

Arsenal you said:

Most women do prefer stronger and taller guys, you cant even deny it yourself. That is why men are bigger and taller.

I asked you for evidence for your proposition that men are bigger and taller because women prefer stronger and taller guys. Your words.

Gosh, arsenal, you were a busy poster overnight.

Humans over time have got taller so it may be that being a tall female or male may be an advantage in mate selection. Or it may be down to ever improving nutrition. Or a whole host of factors.

By the way, what exactly do you mean by "a tall man" and in which society are you referring to this advantage? I found some data for the US, where the median male height was 5ft 8.5 and the distribution was such that 80% of men were taller than 5ft 6.

Actually for most of history in most societies, women haven't chosen who they mate with. The men who owned them chose for them.

It was completely pointless men evolving to have characteristics attractive to women, seeing as how they constructed a society where it wouldn't make any difference anyway - even the most unfortunately evolved of them would get a woman because that's the way they organised human society.

Flora given that its common knowledge being a tall man is an advantage.
I honestly thought you were being funny by asking for proof.

Whenthered women chose who they mate have sex
I THINK given a choice of earning money or raising children more women would choose to raise children and more man would choose to earn the money.
I think what went wrong is taking that choice away.
Ie. a women should be free to work or stay at home without being forced by society.

Arf Whenthered

It only makes sense if you buy into gender stereotyping and haven't considered how we are socialised into gendered behaviour from before the moment we are born until the moment we die.

Exactly this. Everything about evo-psych is circular or relies on assumptions based on gender stereotypes and our cultural framework.

It only makes sense if you buy into gender stereotyping and haven't considered how we are socialised into gendered behaviour from before the moment we are born until the moment we die.

Evolutionary-psychology makes huge amounts of sense.

It explains so much of what I have been struggling to work out over the last 25 years.

arsenal we're talking about height because you tried to bring it and evo-psych theory into this discussion. Have you forgotten that? Having failed to back that up with anything, you're now back at talking in circles. Shame, I thought we were about to have an intelligent discussion.

flora
Re women preferring men who are dicks, I don't believe it is the case for the vast majority of women. Almost all the men I know who are dicks are single or divorced.
Being single is not really a bad thing.
Funny enough most dicks are know fuck anything with a skirt.
These guys who can hold a conversation, nothing weird about them, they are just cocks.

Didn't realise the second study link didnt have all the 50 pages. First link was to summarise If you cant be bothered to read 50 pages of the 1958 study. Well I cant be arsed to find the whole 50 page study online.
www.pnas.org/content/early/2013/04/03/1219361110.full.pdf+html
well here is a shorter one. But it also discuss why humans have larger penis funny enough.

I don't know why we are arguing about height, because you dont need to be a genius to know it is an ADVANTAGE to be taller in the dating world.

Which brings why, well you know who cares.
Dont date dicks...

Sterling work Blistory (and others)