Feminism for Dummies.

Arsenal, you just posted "why would there be a high number of rapes if women weren't very selective? Oh you will blame it on men again."

Did you mean that to sound the way it does?

This is an unfair fight. And he thinks he's being original.

When I was looking through the archives earlier, there was the same old shit coming back time and time again. Is it the same person stuck in a loop? Or just loads of men who settle on here with an aim if setting the ladies straight. Which kinda proves the point...

grimble Probably a 'manly man' is a man who doesn't use skin products.
If you use skin products you are probably a 'womanly woman'
If not, God help you :)

Basil lets get this clear gate keeper is the one who choses whom they have sex with.
Gatekeeping in the modern age, comes about because women are not supposed to like sex and are supposed to use it to bargain, not to have it for its own sake. It has nothing to do with evolution, it's purely cultural.

You sort of contradict yourself, women were raped a lot but its modern BS to say women are gatekeepers.. Why would they be a high nimber of rapes if women weren't very selective.
Oh you will blame it on men again.

My answer is women are choosy with whom they have sex with, that is why they are the gate keepers.
An Average woman will be very selective with whom she has sex with even if no one was to find out about it (incase she fears about her reputation)

PS: yes a high percentage of women were raped but what evidence do you have that supports women didn't have a choice.

It's very easy to blame someone than to look at the clear evidence. It's easy to blame society than to actually look and study what are the causes and move forward.

I support feminism in that women should have a choice in life, but I call it BS when blaming men for everything.

grimbletat=rt, I think that's laid down in law. A woman is what you feel. But that's another thread...

And Arsenal can still not explain what a "womanly woman" is

Arsenal once again you are ignoring the fact that for most of recorded history, women had no choice over who they were raped by had to have sex with.

Their sexual partners were chosen by the men who owned them.

Gatekeeping in the modern age, comes about because women are not supposed to like sex and are supposed to use it to bargain, not to have it for its own sake. It has nothing to do with evolution, it's purely cultural.

What I love about evo-bollocks is that OTOH people who go in for it argue that women are gatekeepers of sex because of evolution and OTOH rape is natural.

I got a bit sucked into reading some brilliant threads there. Sorry. Blimey, FWR was outstanding once upon a time.

This one's an interesting read

MillyR was fascinating on the evolutionary stuff.

There are some great threads about this many pages back. Let me see if I can find them.

basil sorry didnt read your response, Are you arguing that women being gatekeepers of sex - a role patriarchy forced women into - is a result of evolution, rather than social constraints Arsenal?
BS about its a result of social constraints.
Women have/had to be more choosy in whom was to father their children because they carried the child for 9 MONTHS and provided most of the primary care for many years to come.
The choosier one decides who they have sex with, meaning women are the gate keepers of sex.
And they chose men who showed high levels of testosterone..

the doct If anyone wants evidence, well prove me wrong.

juicy surely you mean atheists rather than feminists. There are lots of feminist religious.

Can you not see that coming into a feminist space and basically telling everyone what they're doing wrong is going to be seen as patronising at best and infuriating at worst?

Funny, that, because that is exactly what feminists do when they come roaring onto the religious threads. You can't have it both ways.

I don't know about "studies after studies", but there was a flurry of articles about a month ago:

www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/18/mens-smell-testosterone-attractive-to-women-study_n_3110182.html

and this one lists references:
the-gist.org/2012/09/what-is-sexy-anyway-a-scientific-approach/

Believe it or not, I found those by grabbing "women are attracted to high levels of testosterone" from this page and dropping it into Google. Anyone could have done it.

Terrific, can you link to some of those "studies after studies" please?

thedoctrine your concept doesn't explain why women are more sexually attracted to indicators of high levels of testosterone
Or 'manly men'

There are studies after studies that show women are attracted to high levels of testosterone especially at their most fertile.

If anyone wants evidence, well prove me wrong.

I have no angle Arsenal. I was asking a question. You are the one going on about manly men and womanly women. I am asking what you mean by these descriptions. It appears you have no idea. Why use these descriptions when you don't appear to have the foggiest notion what you are talking about. If you do, please enlighten us.

Arsenal

You seem to be mixing up concepts here. Evolution is not a process of consciousness, it's an effect that happens on a species level, or at least on a subgroup of a species level.

So taller hominids might have been more likely to survive to pass on their genes than shorter ones because, say, they could see the predators coming through the long grass more readily, say. Fine, that's a possibility. But it doesn't mean it was a choice of a female for a taller male, or vice versa - it means that shorter hominids were more likely to be eaten before they could reproduce.

But we don't need to do that now. Shorter people and taller people are equally as likely to survive to reproductive age. if there was such an evolutionary pressure, it has gone away. Now attractiveness is far more defined by social norms and pressures - "tall dark and handsome" is still a cliche, but not because the tall guy is more likely than the short to live long enough for child rearing.

I don't know why you are asking me what is a 'manly man'
I don't know what's your angle. Say whatever you want say.

Are you arguing that women being gatekeepers of sex - a role patriarchy forced women into - is a result of evolution, rather than social constraints Arsenal?

Have sex.. Which in old days would have meant reproduce

Mate as in have sex, or as in reproduce?

And what is a "manly man" arsenal? "Manly man" and "womanly woman" are totally subjective judgements. Be grateful therefore if you could answer the question.