Feminism for Dummies.

I think if you want to state an argument as the fact, the truth, it would be better to provide evidence to back up that fact, rather than demanding that other people waste their valuable time looking up research for you.

Or in other words. What Doctrine said

On the contrary, I think mate selection is socialised.

NO ONE HAS PRODUCED EVIDENCE TO PROVE ME WRONG EITHER! HURRAH! SHOUTY CAPS ARE FUN!

That comment about men having to resort to rape as Women are too selective is actually quite sickening.

Is this what you think? What kind of a Man are you?

Grimble I was hoping you'd get the point I was trying to make, without sounding rude 'stupid question get stupid answers.'
i dont know if it will help, but think of Carol Voderman and Chris Hemsworth.

Docto Typing a post takes a minute, as Im sure as everyone else no one takes this too seriously, its just a debate.
But I am interested to know if Im wrong.

Anyway Mate selection is one and probably the only place were we are governed by our 'animal instincts'.
Mate selection occurs on a sub conscious level, we dont actually tell ourself to fall for someone, the 'spark' just happen.

That is why people can be attracted to a person even if every ounce of their body knows this person is wrong.

Flora my whole argument is 'indicators of high levels of testosterone', height being on of them but not necessarily.

STILL NO ONE HAS PRODUCED EVIDENCE TO PROVE ME WRONG

Debating with Arsenal is like shooting fish in a barrel. He can't even logically define what a womanly woman is in his view- a attribute he chose to use - without resorting to naff facetiousness about using skin products.....

He is a mass of irrational contradictions. Time to leave the poor man alone.

arsenal you started off saying that studies proved what you were saying about evolution was true. You tried and failed to back this up and now you're reduced to saying "prove it's not true".

You said above that men were taller than women because women preferred taller men and therefore women's choices drove evolution. Now you're saying women are attracted to men with high testosterone "because of evolution". You're really just coming out with a load of incoherent shit.

Fine, you assert all you like that mate selection in humans is nothing to do with socialisation of humans and everything to do with hormone levels and other "animal" factors.

I'm not quite clear how you separate that from how you spend your days doing whatever job you do (presumably not hunter-gathering), typing these arguments on a constructed forum, communicating with people you will never meet etc.

The vast majority of Western human life is governed by socialisation and constructed civilisation, but in this one area I'm supposed to believe testosterone trumps all?

^My point is, yes Im repeating, women are attracted to high levels of testosterone because of evolution.
No piece of evidence that I know of supports 'women are conditioned' to like certain men.^

Yet again you fail to provide evidence.

Yet again you fail to provide evidence.

Who has called you a rape apologist?

I've just said you were talking shite about rape. Whcih you were.

Thank goodness you've stopped.

Do you honestly think I'm some rape apologists, the type to say 'they were asking for it'
Yes rapist are Nasty men,
PROBABLY desperate, but I don't know.
I know Good men wont resort to rape.
What don't you understand??

Basil I asked for evidence if women didn't have a choice in who they 'mate' with but you still fail to show evidence.
Yes their fathers may have had a say in it but what evidence do you have that shows they didn't have a choice.
An example is some sections of the Kurdish community, women aren't exactly told who they should marry but they will be grave consequences if they marry the 'wrong kind'. Yes it is wrong but does it mean they are forced or the women have no choice. Probably women's choices were limited to tribal men, but they would still choose the same high testosterone male.

My point is, yes Im repeating, women are attracted to high levels of testosterone because of evolution.
No piece of evidence that I know of supports 'women are conditioned' to like certain men.

I would happily say im wrong and I'm talking out of my arse if I'm proved wrong.
What I see here so far is attempts to discredit what I'm writing. Attempts to make me as some person that I'm not. Attempts to say I'm some kind of misogynist, the latest attempt is to label me as some kind of rape apologists.
But absolutely no evidence to prove me wrong.

It's actually impossible to have a coherent conversation with this bloke.

Firstly, we know that society was organised so that men owned women and told them what to do. Their fathers or other male relatives or elders of the tribe or village, told them who they were going to marry. Still do in many parts of the world.

Secondly, you clearly know nothing about rape so do yourself a favour and stop talking about it, it's excruciating reading this shit.

I have read all your posts. Since they each go off at a bit of a tangent from each other, I am seeking to clarify. It would have been quicker for you to write yes or no to my post, I'd've thought.

However, I'll try again.

Do you think nasty men rape?
Or desperate men?
Or perhaps only men who are both desperate and nasty?

Read my post at 0109.

Arsenal, do you think that rapists rape because they are desperate to have sex and have asked a few women nicely, only to be turned down?

No-one is twisting your words, we are asking clarifying questions about your posts.

You are much nastier about men than feminists are, by the way.
I guess all feminist are nasty then...
Of course I know what you mean ie some Feminist are nasty about men.

Hang on, you didn't say "nasty" men, you said men who were desperate to mate would rape.

You're not very clear. I'm very clear. I have never said all men are rapists, nor will I ever say that. Because I don't think that. I'm not so sure about you, though.

Don't be stupid
NASTY men will rape other men in prison even if they wouldn't dream about having sex with men on the outside.

Does it mean all men are rapist..

It's quite amusing singing someone trying to twist my words.
Not about the debate anymore than to get one upmanship on the other

Do you think rape is natural, then?

Now if you want to twist my statement and pretend you dot understand what I mean then so be it.
:)
Nice

Coal most people ask the same/similar question.

Honestly what originality can i bring about evolution theory What can I or anyone here for that matter say that hasn't been said before.
Do differing opinions ever change on an online debate.
Just a debate I'm not preaching to anyone.

Oh, it was what I thought you meant, then gave you the benefit of the doubt.

I'm too nice.

If men are evolutionarily programmed to rape if they aren't getting it willingly, then I think women should be armed to keep themselves safe. Fair?

You are much nastier about men than feminists are, by the way.

Using my phone.. Anyway my point i meant its NOT easier for men to 'mate' hence the desperate rape..

If women went choosy (rightly) there would be less rape because men wouldn't be desperate to 'mate'

Now if you want to twist my statement and pretend you dot understand what I mean then so be it.

I puzzled at that too, DofS.

I gave him the benefit of incoherence.