Did the feminists burn their bras for nothing?

grimbletart - there are organisations who offer just that. They promise vital backlinks from newspapers such as the DM for a small fortune. They will then do a survey, usually through a market research company such as Toluna, the results will then be scanned for an interesting story and the press release written.

The company then gets their vital backlink, in this case My Celebrity Fashion, the DM get their story and the company behind the survey get their pay cheque.

I've been asked to do a few myself. Not surveys but the press release from the results of the survey. If you see a newspaper article about the online buying habits of the general public or the top ten bestselling personalised xmas gifts of last year then those will be mine

We all have to make a living somehow. I wouldn't do a PR on a topic that didn't sit comfortably with me however. I am lucky in that now I have enough work to actually refuse some requests, such as the one that came in the other day asking me to write product descriptions for sex toys and aids!
I told them I simply didn't have enough experience and pointed them in the direction of someone who did.

It is important to realise that these types of surveys, whether they are by fashion mags, companies, organisations etc. are usually not proper research i.e. they are not published in research journals,they are not peer reviewed, the results are not standardised, they do not have confidence intervals, no adjustments are made to correct for bias, confounding, sampling error etc. etc......

They are simply PR tools. Someone has a bright idea to get publicity by doing some half-arsed "survey" because they know that it will get them profile. And they are right. It does.

They are mostly a pile of poo.

I would stay at home if I could afford not to work* and I don't even like Destiny's child.
*I think a lot of people in unsatisfying, dead-end jobs might feel the same way! I don't think this is particularly anti-feminist, though.

I actually did a snurk in RL when I read Destinys Child being used as evidence. Odd how this story constrasts so starkly with the XX Bitch woman also in the DM today. It's almost as though the DM think we should all be SAHM's.........

MY Utopia would

In Utopia, yes.

It's an interesting point you made about men not having to face the daily guilt burden that women have. When I was a stay at home mum I struggled with a loss of identity and self worth, I felt undervalued and frustrated. Then the tables were turned, I started to work full time and my dh stayed at home for a while. He suddenly discovered that looking after 2 small children whilst running a home was no picnic. It took one of my best (male) friends to point this out to him. My dh was moaning to him about how awful life was at home with the kids and my friend turned to him and said "Funny, that's just what Rhubarb was saying when she was at home."

I think the struggle for dh was worse however as it simply wasn't the done thing for men to stay at home whilst their wives worked. It's not culturally acceptable. Many might say they'd be fine with it but it merits attention and remarks. It's not the norm.

I really can't see that changing anytime soon. Women are definitely at a disadvantage and in the same way, so are men. By oppressing our ambition they are reducing their own choices too.

Anyway, I could waffle on all day. I have darning to do and fairy cakes to make

I think most people, men and women would rather be "stay at home parents" and not work, if money was no object. I dont think the report is saying anything we dont know already (although I havent clicked or read the article)

Having said that, I think feminism is an important movement and surely incorporates a woman right to choose, rather than tells them they have to be work career minded.

no-one burned any bras as far as i'm aware.

RootinTootin the backlash was at all three.

1. The survey which we know nothing about. As BIWI says, the results of a survey are only as valid as the research. In this case the DM have chosen not to reveal who the women were, what question they were asked, in what context or any other details which would help ascertain the validity of the survey. Without knowing these, the survey might as well have been about chocolate fire extinguishers for all the use it is.

2. The Daily Mail is a pure barrage of hate aimed at people on benefits, women, immigrants and anyone else it takes offence to. Publicising snippets of a survey which would enforce their own biased notions of women in the workplace is just the kind of thing the DM would do.

3. The OP at first refused (rather rudely) to answer questions about the survey or about what her own opinion was. She has since changed her tone and given her own opinion. Responses to that have been largely sympathetic whilst questioning why she thinks that way, which is what constitutes a debate is it not?

If you wish to prove that all Mumsnetters are vicious, scathing bullies then you are scraping the barrel somewhat on this thread. Perhaps you should turn your attention instead to one of the AIBU threads.

The poll was taken from users of www.mycelebrityfashion.co.uk - hardly a wide cross-section of society

OP, I know women with children who would rather be a SAHM if their circumstances allowed it. I also know SAHM who would rather work outside the home. Both choices are valid, and I'm sorry that you think you're looked down on for your choice.

The survey was reported in the DM not commissioned by them. I stand by my thought that people are shooting the messenger not the message.

Rootin, was that aimed at me? Can you point to a post I've made where I say I despise women for making different choices to me? Or in fact a post where I've told you whether or not I work.

Women have choices now that they didn't have 100 years ago, that's a major 'success' for feminism.

The OP feels judged for her choice to stay at home, this is sad, and while I know this does happen this isn't my understanding or experience of modern 'feminism'.

OP feminism would take another leap further if you (and others like you) felt validated in their choice- because they made it, freely, independently and happily. Not because on this day the daily mail/a fashion website said it was ok- because next week they will say the opposite. And you will still be right to take whatever path you choose.

What a ridiculous post, Rootin. Firstly, the backlash was at the Daily Mail

Second, the issue was about the OP's apparent unwillingness to argue her case/put forward her own point of view

Third, once the OP did talk about her own point of view, lots of sympathy for her

And finally, the 'backlash' has been criticism as to how valid the survey actually is.

I personally think that the good thing about historical feminism is now that there is more choice for women and the thing that annoys me about current feminism is that they seemingly despise other women who make different choices to them. Hence the backlash at this survey.

There is never quite the same questioning of other surveys when it suits their already established prejudice. As always with extremists they only hear / see what they want to hear and everything else is somehow not relevant.

... oh, and I'm a market researcher by the way, so I have a little bit of insight into how these kinds of surveys work/are used

Firstly, what you are falling for is someone's interpretation of the 'research'.

Second, we don't know what the actual question was that they asked - and you can easily get the answer that you want if you ask the question in the right way

Third, we have no idea who those 1500+ women are - do they represent the national population? If not, then the results don't reflect the national population's views. They only represent the views of those women who took part. And if the survey was amongst 1500 women who choose to stay at home, then of course the answer will be to support the choice to stay at home.

I doubt many here would denigrate your choice to stay at home, debssm, but I think it's very sad that you have to look to an inferior and probably badly put together piece of survey work to validate your decision.

debssm
There was a famous quote by a famous person so damn famous I can't recall their name along the lines of 'nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission"

You aren't a failure because you have made a valid choice to do something that works well for you and your family