Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

HCPs also objectify female bodies

84 replies

BlackSwan7 · 12/05/2013 13:01

www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/time-to-end-pelvic-exams-done-without-consent/article4325965/

Some of you might have heard that medical students are brought in to practice pelvic exams on women who have been put under for a surgery without the woman's knowledge or consent.

How do you feel about this? I am personally horrified and absolutely disgusted. I know that our culture objectifies women and their bodies, but we rarely refer to doctors while talking about objectification. I think it's time we did.

Viewing a female body as something to "practice" a pelvic exam on without even seeking the lady's permission is the worst form of objectification. I do understand that medical students need to learn, and I am sure that many women would be happy to volunteer to help them out. But taking advantage of a vulnerable woman like that is just so unethical!

They are just looking at her as a vagina, uterus and set of ovaries they need to "learn" instead of a living breathing person with feelings, modesty and rights.

This IMO is just another aspect of the obstetric set up as it is which is aimed at disempowering women. It's shocking how little the rights of women are taken into account when it comes to things like childbirth and abortion, and this mindset is a part of that.

Would I be unreasonable to say this is comparable with date drug rape? I mean, rape is rarely about sex. It's usually about power and misogyny. Isn't this a way by which medical professionals are abusing their power by taking advantage of vulnerable women?

OP posts:
Original poster
BlackSwan7 · 12/05/2013 14:32

kickassangel Exactly! They view us as practice dummies and not as people. How is that better than the man who views women as breasts and a vagina for his personal gratification? It isn't. Both cases are objectification and I don't see how one can be excused because the perpetrator in one case has a medical degree.

OP posts:
RiotsNotDiets · 12/05/2013 14:32

Yes, I was assaulted by a doctor and his student, I was in stirrups, an hour into pushing and exhausted, so unable to move or defend myself.
The head was crowning when the doctor walked in, didn't introduce himself, explain what he wanted to do or ask my permission, in fact he didn't even acknowledge me just went straight ahead and forced his hand into my vagina.

It was excruciating, far more painful than actually giving birth.

After what seemed like hours of me screaming and begging him to stop, and every fucker in the room completely ignoring me he turned to who I presume was his student and said, "do you want a go?" and the assault was repeated.

Eventually they had finished with me and the doctor told the student she could stay and watch if she wanted and left the room.

When they handed me my daughter I didn't feel the warm rush of love I had been waiting for, I felt cold and empty. It took me weeks to come out of the bleary daze the assault left me in and to feel love for her.

I still have nightmares reliving it more than 2 years later and will never have another child as I am not willing to leave myself vulnerable to this happening again.

Original poster
BlackSwan7 · 12/05/2013 14:30

She did complain to the PCT. Unfortunately taking action against the NHS isn't as easy as one would hope. However, I used that example as an illustration and I don't want to digress with a discussion on how we can take on the NHS for their multiple cock-ups.

"Our culture" is a broad reference to the global culture of misogyny which exists in every country (albeit at different levels). Rape culture may be more prevalent in say India, but it is still relevant in the UK as well.
Women's rights are being abused in every culture and every country, even if it manifests itself in a different way. I don't like to be nationalist when discussing feminism.

Anyway, I was asking for opinions and you don't have to be Canadian to offer one.

OP posts:
kickassangel · 12/05/2013 14:29

I once consented to a student helping with an internal exam. When going through fertility treatment.

I was fine with it until the doctor said the words "push as hard as you like, the patient won't be hurt" Shock

Now, the patient had a name, was conscious and right there, and although no damage was done, could very much feel pain.

I realized right then that the doctor was seeing me just as a practice dummy, not a person.

scaevola · 12/05/2013 14:19

Then she should complain to PCT and onwards - this is a major breach and simply shouldn't be happening. No patient should suffer low quality care which breaches normal standards.

I suggested a Canadian site because you were asking for views on how the first example fitted "our culture" and I took that to mean the culture in which that type of abuse was happening.

Original poster
BlackSwan7 · 12/05/2013 14:13

The student example is from the UK. It was a teaching hospital in England which subjected my friend to this treatment.

I am aware that unconscious women are not subjected to practice pelvic exams in the UK (at least I hope not), but is this forum only for what happens to women in the UK Hmm.

Haven't there been discussion on the condition of Afghan women or the misogyny of the Republican party?

Feminism isn't specific to countries. Women's rights are a global issue.

OP posts:
scaevola · 12/05/2013 14:09

The first link is to operations in Canada and explicitly states the situation in other countries (including UK) is different. It might be better to seek views on a Canadian parenting site as there'll be many more women there affected (or seeing effects on wider medical attitudes) than here on a mainly UK site.

The student example would not happen in UK either.

Original poster
BlackSwan7 · 12/05/2013 14:01

Anyone had a similar experience? Do you think the medical community contributes to rape culture?

OP posts:
Original poster
BlackSwan7 · 12/05/2013 13:04

It isn't just unconscious women who are abused.

I remember when my BFF had her baby. She had written explicitly in her birth plan "No forceps, no students". Unsurprisingly, they used forceps and they allowed ten students in to observe despite her express refusal to consent to either. She had specifically said she did not want a mid-high forceps delivery and would like to proceed straight to a c-section should the need arise. They completely ignored her and said they had to do a forceps because they wasn't enough time for a c-section. This would have almost been reasonable however, they prepped her for a c-section anyway and then the consultant spent double the normal time to perform the forceps delivery because he was explaining things to ten students at the same time. Even a nurse commented later that a c-section would have been much faster and that this consultant had been keen on his students observing a forceps delivery. So essentially he used her a guinea pig because he wanted his students to observe a forceps delivery. yes, this actually happens and the thing is we are not being able to do fuck all about it. Angry

OP posts: