Isn't the name of Mumsnet itself sexist?

Why is any woman who kicks off suddenly representative of all women or all feminists? Why isn't she just an individual in a bad place doing a bad thing?

Happens to members of minority groups all the time, and when it does we are more likely to see it for what it is: black man succeeds, he is an exception; black man commits crime-see, this is what black people are like!

There is no need constantly to allocate the behaviour of individual women onto some kind of spectrum of feminism-influence. If you don't like the behaviour, say so and say why. But constantly holding up feminism as the root causation for everything Women Do Wrong tends to out the speaker as an anti-feminist twit.

Overall, I think it's more important on a forum like Mumsnet for women in that situation to feel able to vent, than for men to feel "welcomed". If I see comments like that on threads about other things, then I tend to counter it. But if it is on somewhere like "Relationships", or a thread largely about problem relationships elsewhere, then I'd rather that women feel able to express themselves even if what they are saying is unfair. The alternative is often to tell them that they ought to go back to being polite little wives and mothers, seen and not heard, always careful to be polite to and about their men. Women in general are far too quick to put up with poor treatment, and feel guilty about asking for their own hurt and outrage to be heard. If a woman reaches a point where she is sufficiently pissed off about her situation to lash out, then she probably needs to do that, and not be told that she's putting back the cause of feminism by being less-than-perfect.

It always end like this: "Women! Be very careful what you say! Don't be too rude or too pissed off! Don't swear! You are giving feminism a bad image! It will be your own fucking fault that you don't have equality!" FFS.

interperet, not interupt

AMumInScotland. Trouble is though, eith what you have written, that there can be many women doing that, for quite a long time. Which really does not do the cause any good at all.
Yes, some people will interupt it, but most, including many men will not.
They will read and accept exactly what is written.

In a way, it is a bit like FFJ in reverse, when they mouth off.

Women get at least low-level sexism every fucking day: "Is that Miss or Mrs?", "Who's looking after the kids?", "Aren't you lucky he does the washing up?", "Wow, he looks after the kids! You are so lucky.", Page 3, make-up, cosmetic adverts, supermarket adverts etc etc. And look at the Everydaysexism project if you really want to depress yourself.

So I think you won't get too much sympathy if you take offence at a little exasperated "FFS". FFS.

I'm not talking about her man having "done something to upset her". I'm talking about women who are in truly terrible relationships, where they have been undermined and belittled, where after being downtrodden for years they finally have an epiphany and decide "I don't have to be the victim in this life". If they then snap up from that in "attack mode" for a short while, I will cheer them on, even if they are saying "all men are bastards I hope their bits drop off", because I know it really means "I have seen the light and will gradually start to feel able to get a bit of perspective where I don't put up with being treated like shit".

If a woman made a comment like that about men just because one had "upset" her, then I would be just as happy to accuse her of sexism as I would a man in similar circumstances.

Amuminscotland - I understand you comment but if I were to comment "bloody women are all the same" because my wife had done something to upset me I would have been accused of sexism!

^^ this

ilovemyself - you have to remember that when you see a comment from a woman lashing out at men, it is probably not because she believes passionately in feminism. It is far more likely that she is utterly pissed off and despairing because one (or more) individual men in her life are utter bastards and her life has become a struggle to get treated like anything other than shit. It is unlikely she is trying to "help the cause" of feminism. I haven't seen the specific thread you mention, but people are often not calm and measured about what they type when they are hurting.

Thanks for the idea of starting a new thread - I may just do that. My main gripe was the sort of comment I have just seen on a thread - a comment about men's testicles shrivelling up and falling off. That is the sort of person that doesn't help the cause - again, which I must add, I am all for

Ilovemyself - if you are genuinely curious about feminism and want to know more you could start a new thread on here. You could say something like, 'Hi, I'm new to feminism, could anybody recommend me some good reading material for beginners?' Then you could read the suggestions.

People are usually quite generous given this sort of request but understandably don't want to have to do this all the time on any thread.

You may have got friendlier responses if you had done this before starting with the 'feminists want to take over the world' and the 'gone too far' stuff.

Ilikethebreeze - I just meant that my nick suggested I'm a dad, not that I had to be one thing or another to be here.

Hey KaseyM. Have I started with the FFS? No. I am entitled to am opinion and yes, I do feel like I have to tread on egg shells around some women, especially when I have had the attitude thrown at me that I should have to pay penance because of what has happened in the past. Is it my fault. No it is not.

What the f@:k have you done? I don't know, but I hate the tone that gets thrown just because I have questioned what the feminism is about on his site.

Yes, there are women out there that hate men just as there are men that hate women. But the fact I have questioned something on her and have receive a load of vitriolic replies rather than someone politely telling me what it is all about says a lot about some of the contributors.

I only joined today so I am bound to have questions. The parenting question I have asked has given some fantastic replies. Shame my questions here haven't.

So that makes me a feminist then as I agree in equality. Jeez, it is easy for people to get upset!

FFS! Why oh why do we always get this crap about some feminists wanting to "rule the world" and "take things too far"? What the fuck have we done exactly?

Hitler wanted to rule the world. Genghis Khan, Stalin & countless power hungry dictators in history who set up concentration camps, invaded other countries and lobbed off the heads of people they didn't like, now they could be accused of taking things a tad "too far". Not a single fucking feminist amongst them.

Yet somehow it's always fems that get accused of this heinous crime of wanting to take things "too far"?

I've never known a single sodding feminist who ever wanted anything other than fair share. As for hating men, jog on! It's those pessimistic non-feminists who come out with the "what do you expect from a man?" and "boys will be boys" crap, not us!

The fact that people are so ready to buy into this idea that feminists want to rule the world is PART OF THE PROBLEM FFS!!

Is it possible for a decent man NOT to be a feminist?
NOT to believe in equality?

Feminism is a topic which affects all women, whether or not they agree with the name or what they think of the agenda. It also affects parents, as it impacts on the kind of wold our children will grow up in. It is right that a site which aimed primarily at parents, particularly women, should have a feminism section.

If that puts off some men, because it makes them uncomfortable, then that's a price worth paying.

I agree that there may be some women who dislike men on principle. Most feminists do not agree with that point of view, but it is better that they express it and have a debate even so.

And perhaps my " rule the world" was wrong. What I meant was the "every man is a bastard and out to get me type" when we quite clearly are not!

Blistery, where is this
humanely that men are being treated in?

Blistory - sorry if I got you on a bad day. I certainly don't want to offend anyone but equally don't want to take people's views on board without understanding them

I would never try and stop any form of comment, and encourage debate. All I was saying is that with every form of fight for equality, there is always the group that want to go further than equality.

And I think that if you can't question people's motives for their feminists views without them getting defensive and reactionary it is poor. Especially when you have already stated that you are all for equality.

And am I a good man or. Bad man? Basing this on the fact that all you know about me is that I feel uneasy about feminists.

I wouldnt try to stop the feminist section existing, if that is what you have been trying to do.

To be fair, I think most feminists, at least on the MN feminist boards are after equality, not domination of men.
That is how I read it anyway.
I think there maybe were a group that wanted domination, but not sure they are still on there. Dont know for sure.
But if you dont click on the feminism section, you wont really see it.
More then enough other categories to ask for advice on.
If in doubt about which section, just post on chat.