Isn't the name of Mumsnet itself sexist?

Oh look, not just a goadyfucker, but a prissy goadyfucker. Aren't we the lucky ones.

People swear when they get irritated. It happens. On MN it is permitted, because we are treated as adults who are allowed to choose how to express ourselves.

Maybe you need to consider why it is that people on this thread are finding your statements irritating, rather than making this about swearing?

I said I could swear the the best of you, however I choose not to as I am a little more polite than you. It's not double standards at all - have you seen me swear? No.

And yes intelligent people can choose to swear, they just chose not to!

There have been some very polite people on this part of the forum, but some are plain abusive.

If you want to swear at me as a supporter fine. But swear at someone who you are trying to win over to your point of view and you will never win.

You have said I have nothing sensible to say (because I swear) - that is RUDE!

so you can "swear with the best of us" but you expect us "to be well above that"? Double standards much?

Intelligent civilised people can swear whenever the fuck they like!

Male or female, swearing just means you have nothing sensible to say. Oh, I can swear with the best of you but I just thought you would be well above that. Obviously not.

And the argument that it is quality with no conditions based on the fact i said swearing was not polite is just stupid. Its not equality based on good behaviour, it is the fact the intelligent civilised people should be able to discuss things without resorting to abuse - something you clearly seem incapable of.

Everyone should expect common decency and politeness. I have not once been rude to you. And I don't see why I should expect the same from you.

My favourite is WDYFOTTFSOFAWYGTFOSM (Why don't you fuck off to the far side of fuck and when you get there fuck off some more). But wait! Is this unladylike? Will we alienate our supporters? Is that why we still don't have equality? >

Let me just say this and then I will fuck off:

I want equality with no conditions. I do not want equality predicated on "good behaviour".

Ilovemyself people tell each other to Fuck off all over Mumsnet. Yes it might be rude but it's not about the Feminist boards.

We have a special acronym telling people to fuck off too - ODFOD (oh do fuck off dear). This of course is balances out by the infamous DYMTTSSR - (Did You Mean That To Sound So Rude?).

You might find NetHuns more polite if that is what you like. I don't think they like swearing much over there.

Ilovemyself - the problem is that you appear to be saying that, by having a Feminism section, MN is making itself less attractive to fathers, and that we should therefore change in order to be more "equal".

The problem, for me, is that Feminism is an important part of what it means to be a woman, and a parent, and a human being. People on this part of the forum may occasionally overstate their point, as they do on many other parts of the forum. Personally I also spend a lot of time in "Philosophy & Religion" and "Home Education" and, believe me, making broad-brush statements is extremely common on both.

But that doesn't mean that people should not debate those issues, or that having an area where a group of like-minded people can discuss things of particular interest to them is in any way wrong or unequal.

I discuss religion with atheists, and I discuss HE with people who think all children should be in school. In the Feminism section, there are debates which include comments which are pretty extreme in either direction.

If you don't want to see those debates, then go to the Customise option and hide this topic. I have more hidden than showing, as topics like weaning are no longer my area of expertise.

But if the very idea that someone might talk about men in negative terms makes you feel unwelcome, then I think you need to take a long look at why that is and decide if you might perhaps like to consider how women feel in most areas of life. Equality is a nice idea. Those of us who happen to be female don't get much of it, and have few areas where we can actually be in the majority, and have our views and preferences treated as the norm instead of an oddity. MN happens to be one of them.

And I am not trying to change the world in a day. I am just asking the same as everyone else - to be treated as equal!

Hi ilikethe breeze.

I am just trying to get my head around the fact that as someone that supports the same ideals as those that post in this section, because I comment or question things I am subject to abuse.

I certainly think telling people to F off is just rude and has no place in sensible discussion

AMumInScotland may have explained that in her post of 10.32am
And you are not going to be able to change Rome in a day.

Ilovemyself.
I didnt realise for half of this thread , that I was actually posting on the feminist section. [I post all over the place on MN, on whatever subject happens to interest me at that time].
But when I woke up to this fact, I do think we have to wise up to the fact that this is not the same necessarily the same as posting in chat, or relationships, or conception, or wherever.
There are some posters that only post on certain boards. Fine. Whatever floats their boat.
But you also have to bear in mind that if you post in feminism you are going to get views from a lot of feminists. So it is not really on to complain that feminists are replying to you.
So, if for instance you want relationship advice, you post in relationships.

I am not being condescending. And at least I am not being offensive.

I have never said that the feminist board should be closed down - a few commenting on my posts have said I have but I certainly have not.

And it's funny how when you try to explain that you encourage debate you are accused of being magnanimous like you are bowing to everyone here. All I am saying is I am not fighting against you.

Yes I am sorry you feel hard done by, and in some cases you are.

But by saying its about being equal I am not teaching you to suck eggs. I am saying why should I not be treated as equal as anyone else, especially as I share the same views as many on here

Quotes from ilovemyself:

"Feminism, like any other fight for equality is unfortunately highjacked by those who fight not for equality but want to take things too far. It also has the problem that "outraged from Tunbridge Wells" will always over react to issues or make issues where there are none."

Yes. Feminists are held to higher standards of behaviour than other people. And we are oversensitive.

"If you had read what I had written properly you wad have seen that I said that equality is fine. It is those that want to rule the world rather than being equal that are the problem. "

Ditto.

"What I mean by that is that rather than equality they want to make men feel bad about themselves or bad about coming into a female dominated area. "

Hahahaha. Welcome to our world.

"I would never try and stop any form of comment, and encourage debate. "

How bloody magnanimous of you.

"Jeez, it is easy for people to get upset!"

Well. Whinge whinge whinge.

"I do feel like I have to tread on egg shells around some women, especially when I have had the attitude thrown at me that I should have to pay penance because of what has happened in the past. Is it my fault. No it is not."

Of course it's not your fault, darling. We should be extra nice to you, and never be upset about anything until we can ascertain individual responsibility.

"Wow. So many people who are defensive. "

Well.

"If you want support from those you think are against you ( in this case men) you need to accept them and listen to what they have got to say. This isn't about men being right or women being right. It's about everyone living equally"

Blimey. Is it about everyone living equally? I never fucking knew that. And I bet those suffragettes were pretty nice and accepted whatever they were told and listened to what their lords and masters had to say. Wow. We have so much to learn.

"Telling me to F off is hardly respectful is it. "

No. Is telling someone to fuck off ever respectful? Stop being so bloody condescending.

It looks to me as though MN has over 100 discussion boards.

If an individual doesn't want to use MN or post here because MN includes a Feminist section, jog on! Off you trot.

How it that anyone's loss?

If you ask a question on here about your wife, then it depends on the question and how you raise it. If you express things carefully and thoughtfully, then there is no reason for you not to get a fair hearing.

But yes, you are coming into a predominantly female space, and would be wise to presume that people will empathise with your wife's position more than they do yours, because people do tend to empathise with those whose situation they can more easily picture themselves in.

That doesn't mean that the advice would not be useful though - hearing how others respond to your comments may help you to see the situation from a different point of view, which might help to resolve your difficulties, or at least open up an avenue of discussion which you hadn't thought of.

If you discuss your relationship problems in a mainly-male environment, then you will get more validation of your own views, but probably less help in understanding your wife's feelings. So are you more concerned about "getting a fair hearing" or in hearing an alternative?

Well what did you expect ilovemyself? You wrote on the feminist board that the existence of a feminist board on Mumsnet made the site feel uninviting for you as a man. And that some people here wanted to take over the world. Did you expect the women here to say, "oh gosh you're right, let's close down the feminist board?"

Telling me to F off is hardly respectful is it. You are putting views in my mouth that are simply not there.

I will stand up for anyone being discriminated against. Be speak to me like I am not an equal and you are just as to blame.

And amuminscotland, I accept that some relationship problems cause parenting issues. But I don't feel I could ask a question on here about my wife because I don't feel I could get a fair hearing.

I do see others point of view- I just fail to see others listening to mine or my questions. All I get is a flaming. Some welcome that is!

I'm not usually this angry. But accusing people of being defensive while refusing to see other people's points of view, or even to admit they do not understand, really riles me. All this insistence on correcting people. I've met enough people like that. My one great regret is not telling them to fuck off often enough.

Do you accept the concept that some parenting problems are caused by relationship issues, which in turn are sometimes caused by the behaviour of some men?

The women who have those problems need support, even if they are talking in terms which are unfair to men in general.

That doesn't mean that we, in general, think that men are "against us" or that we fail to "listen to what they say".

But if you find the presence of support for women in those situations, or the presence of a Feminism section, make you feel that you are unimportant, then feel free to decide not to take part.

Living equally is something that the vast majority of posters on Mumsnet are in favour of. We'd love for it to happen. Sadly the world isn't working that way yet, and we still need to support women whose men treat them as far less than equal, and we still need to be active in the wider world to argue for it.

Wow. So many people who are defensive. The point I am making is that this is supposed to be a parenting site and I come to find help with issues. Looking at the posts on here I may as well not bother, because it seems men don't matter her.

If you want support from those you think are against you ( in this case men) you need to accept them and listen to what they have got to say. This isn't about men being right or women being right. It's about everyone living equally

Have you ran put of things to find offense with OP?

To me it is a forum aimed at women who are parents. It has evolved (and been steered), unlike some other sites to deal with not just questions of how to be a "better" women or a "better" mother but with issues of identity and politcs. It is a bit like the guardian women's page, jill tweedie would have definately been a mnetter and we could have had posy simmons cartoons on the side. The problem now is that "mum" no longer describes a biological relationship and a set of resposibiliies but describes a patient, well groomed size 10 woman that takes her husbands dinner out of the oven with the same wry smile as she changes yet another nappy. We need to reclaim the word MUM, not change the name of the website