Radfem 2013 and the MRAs

Interestingly, the company that organises the bookings for the London Irish Centre does not seem to have a problem with the content of the conference. Or, seemingly, to believe that twaddle about it being against the Equalities Act. This is their statement:

'In response to those posting about the Radfem conference, Off to Work apologises that we are unable to proceed with the booking of the London Irish Centre (LIC) which we took previously. Off to Work is the exclusive booking agent for commercial hire of this venue, which is used for a variety of social, cultural and other purposes, in Camden.

Our cancellation of the booking was a very difficult decision, but one that we have made to protect the safety of our venue staff. It is also due to the increased operational demands of the conference, which we are not now equipped to deal with as a very small organisation and venue, used mainly for weddings, community events and training.

We have made this difficult decision based entirely on our available infrastructure and the wellbeing of our staff, without pressure from any group concerned with the subject matter of the conference and we are making recommendations to the organisers about other possible venues with the operational capacity to accommodate the event. We wish Radfem a successful conference.'

Leith, are you against all radfems meeting to talk about anything, ever?
Given that you don't think the subject of the conference is relevant, do you think we need to define all radfems (all rad fems. Not just ones in a particular group) as a hate group and ban them from ever meeting each other? Because this seems to be the implication.
There is no radfem organisation which has 'kill all men policies' and which is now organising this conference. Some people elsewhere on the internet, apparently in American, who call themselves radfems, appear to have said nasty things about men (though nb this stuff has been taken out of context so it is not clear which men or what it is in response to). And to your mind this justifies preventing UK radfems meeting? NB the organisers of Radfem 2013 are not even the same as those who organised Radfem 2012.
Or is it that you think no-one who disagrees with genderist theory should be allowed to meet with each other, because they are by definition bigots?

You don't have to want to join a lesbian community. I don't either. But I fail to see why you have a problem with people who do, getting together to discuss it. Are you against their existence?

looks like an interesting conference but I am disappointed with the lack of creche/childcare

Lots of environmental issues are heavily gendered. The FAO, which is hardly a radical organisation, has lots of research on this which is available online.

Thank you for the link Tunip

Sisters Tackling Climate Change & Male Destruction of the Environment

eh??????? male destruction of the environment??????

That is abusurd, can not be backed up with any theory or evidence. The way that humans change and appropriate the environment damages it. It isn't something that men do alone.

Building Radical Lesbian Feminist Communities no thank you.

The whole history of humanity has been one of changing and using nature, of producing the means to subsist and to reproduce our species. That is why we ruin our environment (we should find better ways forward now we have the intelligence and means to produce new technologies) and why we have men and women.

What on earth would society look like if all the women had retreated to the "womens" cave and stayed put building lesbian communities round camp fires. Or is it that we simply wouldn't be here.

I agree with leith, if you follow the links the essentially liberal views of the Irish centre combined with the equally liberal equality laws ensure that this conference now has no where to go.

I am no fan of liberalism and one track identity politics but what is as clear as day is that radical feminism is itself single issue activism. So whilst they sit outside the liberal view on equality in terms of trans gender they fail to realise that the proliferation of radfem ideology is quite convenient to the people they claim to be fighting........the patriarchy.

Nope not getting in to the symantics thing, its like talking to the swp in that respect. The thread was about how it was all MRA's against RadFems an element of truth is in that but the main story is that the Irish Centre pulled the event as a result of the past history associated with radfem conferences and the use of hate speech against trans people. You do not like the way that reads, that's a shame perhaps do more to change the perception of people as to what radfems think of trans people.

Then your selectivly reading and processing, the conference might well have been about unicycling, however the Irish centre were petitioned by trans people, the Irish centre then did their own research and pulled the event as it conflicted with the Irish Centres own EQUALITY policy.

They felt the conference could lead to a contravening their policy no matter what the subject of the conference was. Like a BNP conference might be about housing policy but we all know the type of language and ideas they would come out with. Thats the view that the Irish centre took.

Leith, I have read Kritiq's links. I repeat, the conference is not about trans.

'No the way to stop hate speech is do not believe in hate and then their will never be a reason to write hate.'

The idea that if you just ignore it it will go away is very seductive, but if it results in everyone simply ignoring when MRAs attack women through rape threats, for instance, rather than calling attention to it and naming it for what it is, it's not the answer.
I agree that sometimes it is tempting to wish rad fems wouldn't rise to the attacks, but when you see them being attacked or threatened it is fairly understandable when they give like for like. Cathy Brennan's approach of giving trolls her own phone number and saying 'Do you want to talk about this face-to-face?' is brave and impressive but not everyone is capable of it.
Women do seem to get held to a higher standard than other people sometimes: men can make violent threats but when women respond to them, they are the ones criticised for it.

In that case Turnip do go and read the links posted by Kritiq, they explain that the issue is trans and past radfem conferences.

Eh? No. I am pointing out that the conference is not about the trans issue. If the London Irish Centre has got the impression that it is, they are wrong.

Turnip you are saying the Irish centre are MRA then?

No the way to stop hate speech is do not believe in hate and then their will never be a reason to write hate. The "Them and us" thing is used to justify power, from all I have read about the radfems and the issue of trans, it seems to come down to the fact that radfems do not want to share the identity they have as women with people who live as and think of themselves as women, because in some way Burchill and Jefferies et all see this as an attack on the power they have to dominate other women with their position.

As Minx says the enemy is not people in the same class or with the same goals, the enemy are those within who claim power and right to speak for others. This crap that "we should have free speech" exactly the same argument as put forward by homophobic christens, racists, and genocide proponents.

Mini. The conference is not about the trans issue. You've decided to go with the MRA version of what it is about, rather than the actual version.
The biggest issue up for discussion is violence against women.
The programme is here.

Mini,
i couldn't agree more. Thank you.

Anyway I won't be attending I am too busy worrying about government cuts to benefits and services which disproportionately effect women & the erosion of ALL workers rights. Worrying about whether men can become women is least of my worries, What concerns me more is the fact that women are the exploited working poor whilst men once proud are increasingly being thrown on the scrap heap through unemployment because of changes to production and the greed of capitalist scum.

Being able to feed yourself and pay for shelter, to reproduce yourselves on a daily basis is a more pressing need than checking what people have in their underpants.

Hi Leith.

MooncupGoddess the MRA are over estimating the power of the RadFems and think that feminism is denying them their rights and causing their oppression/marginalisation. The radfems are playing to the crowd and perpetuating this notion by their own behaviour.

Men are directing their anger upon women and not on those that actually oppress them. This is the problem with single issue activism.

When I say radfems need to listen, I think we all need to listen. Then we need to forge alliances and create solidarity.

Liberalism is at the root of why rads are censored in their analysis and liberalism is at the root of the creation of single issue politics. I suspect many equate liberalism with the left, no way. Liberalism is a right wing construct that serves the interests of the wealthy oppressors.

It is the way in which the elite political and financial class have obscured the truth, all this fighting benefits no one but them.

I can't remember which American politician said it but basically they said that "we need to create single issue activism, around gender, sex, race and culture because it obscures the economic realities that would otherwise ally these groups to each other"

It's very easy to take things out of context to create a hate site. Remember what F4J did with Mumsnet: they went selectively through posts where people were slagging off their exes or saying men who refused to support their children were arseholes, and produced an advert accusing Mumsnet of being a hate site and misquoting statements about certain types of men as being about all men.
I have seen radfems get very nasty about violent men, and I have seen them defend themselves robustly when attacked.

Absolutly Mini

I accept your point Tunip, to use censorship to close down all debate is unhelpful especially within academia. but........

I have followed the links, I watched the Vid of the woman with the red hair shouting "shut the fuck up" repeatedly, I wouldn't be inclined to listen to someone so obviously unpleasant, I can't imagine what she hoped to achieve. She is to me the epitome of what is wrong, she sums up perfectly why men are becoming radicalised. As do some of these rad fem blogs, that are full of bile and hatred. A lot of these blogs appear to be American. They are full of hatred and vitriol.

Whilst I fully understand the radfem analysis on trans I do think something needs to be done to stop these hate filled blogs. Something needs to be done about the thousands of women who call themselves Radfeminists going about the internet leaving a trail of what amounts to fascist comments. That is what needs censoring because otherwise we are likely to see a situation where women become increasingly under threat. Rad/feminism will not be the vanguard that ushers in equality but the fuse that sparks all out antagonism, fear and hostility. That's if you think it hasn't already done so.

I followed the links to this theterfs.com/2013/03/02/terf-quotes/ which is particularly ugly.

I have also done a quick scout around some of the MRA sites, nothing too surprising. They locate their "Oppression" in the wrong place, something they share with radical feminism. It is class society that perpetuates their oppression just as it does ours. All out turf war btw the sexes as has been the case since the break up of the civil rights movement & it only serves to create more bogey men, more antagonism, more inequality and stops us from getting on with what needs doing. So whilst rads are taking pots shots at angry men and the angry men are busy reacting and becoming increasingly radical, we miss the fact that more and more people of both sexes are being impoverished, starved and exploited so that the real "patriarchy" can line their pockets with yet more gold.

There are two sexes, male and female, do you think men made history whilst women peeled potatoes or do you think we may actually have had something to do with creating our own social reality? Or is it that men created hell on earth whilst we slept?

If men are becoming increasingly angry, vocal and radical, increasingly feeling oppressed attacked and marginalised, Radfems need to ask why?