Radfem 2013 and the MRAs

Just thought maybe I should have checked where herod lived before writing.

It's been a while since I looked in my bible.

Still the gist is still valid

King Herod: not a rad fem.

You heard it here first.

"Killing baby boys has happened and it all started back with Herod and from what I have read in Rad Fem forums it is something you people seem to talk about. Why on earth would anyone write such a sadistic thing if you claim that you don't actually do it?"

1. Herod was a bloke who was a King in Egypt a few thousand years ago.He was not a radical feminist sitting in the UK in 2013. I am utterly bamboozled not sure why parallels are being drawn.

1. Radical feminists are not murdering male babies as a general ideological thing that they do. If they were, wouldn't someone have noticed by now? I have met radical feminists with sons. The idea that radical feminists are killing their male offspring and no-one is noticing is, um, totally unbelievable peculiar I think.

Thanks for the Engels link, Mini, that looks interesting.

Elohim illustrates well how hard it is or even impossible to engage with MRAs on any sensible level. You can't have a rational discussion with people who join organisations to fight things that don't exist. It reminds me of this a bit:

blogs.independent.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/down_with_this_sort_of_thing.jpg

arf at Basil's songs.

I'll start worrying about evil violent rad fems when they start raping, killing and beating up men in the numbers men do to women.

Until then, I think I'll remain fairly unworried tbh.

But of course, a couple of women talking about that sort of thing on t'interweb, is far, far worse, then men who aren't even MRA activists actually doing it to women on a grand scale.

If you've got no sense of proportion.

Well after she has spent some time in the MRA camp maybe she'll realise just how deranged and beyond reason some men are.

I linked early in the thread to a site that had collated some of the most shocking comments made about men and male children by women who "claimed to be RadFem". I don't doubt for a moment that some women think in terms that are man hating. I feel that these comments from randoms being posted all over the net are part of the problem. Some probably come from a place of great pain others ignorance, some pure spite. But more than anything I think it comes from ignorance, its about lay people adopting incomplete theory, bad analysis and making even worse ideology. For that reason I think the RadFem conference should go ahead. It is important that the academics, the activists and the thinkers get out there and talk. I hope that just maybe the organisers will have the guts to tackle the issue, otherwise what is essentially something good will turn very ugly.

As for Herod and baby killing, he wasn't the first but as I remember he was as is usually the case with any ruling class.......male.

it is difficult for me to judge how vehemently you feel when you use variable numbers of !!! elohim is there any way for you to standardise it

tia

And of course men can't ever be vindictive and wicked, so no need to join a woman's rights group.

She's already told us why she joined, and it was nothing to do with human rights issues, it was personal:
'I joined a men's rights group because I know just how wicked, evil and vindictive some women can be'.

elohim - so if you care about baby girls, why are you an MRA? Why did you just now claim that gender 'doesn't matter', despite tunip pointing out to you that huge numbers of girl foetuses are aborted or killed?

Come on. If you really believe baby girls matter, I think you would have a better answer than that gender 'doesn't matter' when we're talking about gendered discrimination against baby girls.

Btw, not that I imagine Herod was any great shakes, but no, of course killing babies didn't 'start' with him. Any Christian - and anyone with the slightest knowledge of history - would know that.

I am sorry, I find you impossible to take seriously when you say things you must know to be untrue and silly.

I do find it deeply offensive you are claiming to be Christian and motivated by human rights concerns, when it stretches credibility to the limit to imagine either is the case.

Elohim,

Have you actually read 90 % of the posts directed at you? Judging by your last post, I think not.

There are vindictive people around of both genders. That's just the way the world is. There are also lovely, caring, selfless people around of both genders.

No one but no one on this thread has said they want to get rid of any "little fuckers" (not my words, this quote is taken from you). A number of posters have told you how terrible they think it is. Yet you keep bringing it up.

Therefore, you are not reading any responses to your posts. Ergo you won't mind if other people ignore yours from now on, it's obviously a waste of time responding to you.

See, I don't have a problem with someone choosing to selectively campaign on the issues that affect men. I would like to see men being encouraged to make more use of mental health services so fewer men commit suicide. I would like more anti-violence education aimed at boys in school, which would mostly benefit the other men who are most likely to be the victims of male violence, but indirectly benefit women too, as it happens. And I would happily support a male-led campaign against the ridiculous gendering of childhood clothes and toys that focused on the targeting of boys with violent toys (rather than peaceful things like dolls and toy kitchens) and clothes with negative slogans ('Little Monster' etc).

Unfortunately the existing MRA movement has missed the point massively and is more concerned with blaming women and feminism for problems facing men, rather than coming up with convincing critical analysis of the ways that patriarchy harms men and doing something about it.

If there was a country in the world where boys were being selectively aborted and killed as babies that would be a huge human rights issue. It wouldn't be unimportant because they were boys. Only.... there isn't. And there is more than one place where these things DO happen to girls, so if you come along and bring up the issue of of selective abortion and try to twist it into an argument against rad fems having a conference, you WILL find it makes you look rather like you either don't know or don't care about what happens to girls, because you are asking people to worry more about imaginary stuff you think might happen to boys than actual stuff that is happening to girls in horrifyingly large numbers.

Oh, and one more thing.
'Yes, there are lots of innocent babies and children dying out there - doesn't matter what gender but it is sadly happening for whatever reason it may be. '
If they are being killed because of their gender and all the babies being killed because of their gender belong to the same gender then you're not going to get very far pretending their gender is irrelevant.

Who says I don't care about little girls who are being aborted or killed? Of course it goes the same as well for baby girls - equal rights - we should all be treated fairly and I am totally against abortion. No Jesus, did not want the little ones to suffer and that is why he said let them come onto me. The MRA men that I work with are certainly not trying to brain wash me into thinking anything else but what I believe in - you seem to forget we are men and women working together. Killing baby boys has happened and it all started back with Herod and from what I have read in Rad Fem forums it is something you people seem to talk about. Why on earth would anyone write such a sadistic thing if you claim that you don't actually do it? Do you really want to get rid of the 'little fuckers' like I quoted that care worker earlier on? I guess we have different trains of thought but I stick to my guns. I joined a men's rights group because I know just how wicked, evil and vindictive some women can be - note I said SOME!!!! So don't go thinking I'm having a go at you lot out there. I am just relieved that The London Irish Centre saw the light and waved goodbye to all you people that will be attending the RAD FEM conference. You think I am possibly wasting my time and energies on this story - maybe I am with some of you but I merely wanted to congratulate the London Irish and express my disapproval of what Rad Fem is all about.....Here endeth the lesson!!!!!!!!!!!!

Elohim,

Just one small question.

If you truly believe in equal rights for all, then why did you join a men's rights group, which focuses on only half the population, and not a human rights group?

I believe Amnesty International fight for all people, regardless of gender, perhaps they would be a better group for you to direct your energies.

I hope it is the light of Christ, basil.

Though I am enjoying the singalong.

Well frankly Chub, if someone is gullible enough to believe radfems want to kill boy babies and let women commit violent crime without sanction, they're probably a bit of a sitting duck for whatever the MRAs want to feed them about the nature of their organisation.

I've seen the light. Elohim's posts are so wise and true that they have converted me.

I'm off to join the MRA.

"And we're all off to Camden in the green, in the green..."

"The radical Fems, like lightning ran from the wisdom of the MRA"

"I learned all my life cruel women to blame,
So now I am part of the MRA game"

"And every man must stand behind the men behind the keyboards"

"By a lonely prison wall I heard a young girl calling Elohim they're taking you away. For you trod on rad fem corns and now they're killing all male-borns and a prison ship lies waiting in the bay. Shr...i...i.....i....i...i..i...ll, hiiiiii....iiiii....iiiii.iiigh, the rad fems voices cry..."

But men's rights activists do not campaign for Human rights in general. They campaign for male privilege. Either you are lying have been misled about the aims and objectives of the organisation you are involved with or... Actually I can't think of an or.

I sincerely doubt there is an ideology in the world that advocates killing baby boys.

I really find it difficult to believe anyone sincerely thinks that could possibly be true.

But you have been misled, Elohim. You have been misled about radical feminists and what they believe.

You have some very odd ideas about them.

elohim, do you not believe baby girls are also born (or, as tunip points out), not born, into a world of prejudice?

Is it not extremely sexist of you to only care about the boys?

I can't see how that has anything to do with equal rights.

Of course it matters what gender of children are dying, and the reason. To dismiss those baby girls as you do is disgusting.

Yes I believe the quote to be true. I used this quote in the general sense to get my point across - baby boys are born into the world with discrimination around them before they're able to voice their own opinion or voice their feelings. It's as if it's been decided in society already and they're innocently persecuted. For your information, I work side by side with both men and women who stand up for the human worth of all males, irrespective of race, sexual orientation or social status. We do this because it is right and strongly believe in doing so. However, this does not mean we're prejudice and only believe in fighting for males human worth - I am sure I can speak for my other supporters as well that in general we would fight for everyone were human worth is concerned. I mentioned Equal Rights for all - the saying goes for everyone....EVERYONE!!

Yes, there are lots of innocent babies and children dying out there - doesn't matter what gender but it is sadly happening for whatever reason it may be. Girls are not wanted in China, my friend who is a Doctor went out to rescue and adopt a Chinese Girl and she has grown to be a gorgeous girl so please don't try to patronise me because I have lived you know and you can not lead me into thinking I have been mislead. Doesn't matter whether I have met a Radical Feminist or not to be able to get my point across and you can either like it or lump it. I voice my opinion freely because I believe what I am doing is right - you will learn the truth one of these days, truth comes to us all in our time!!!!!!

MooncupGoddess you had better get a move on there are so many so little time.

I agree that we are certainly socialized into thinking in certain ways.

I also believe, btw, that theologically this is valid. Even if you are the most hard-line Calvinist, 'free will' does not mean 'I can think and do exactly whatever I like', it means 'within the limitations of what it means to be human - ie., to have a brain that socializes me before I know of it - I am not God's puppet'.

This is, however, theology and not terribly interesting if you reckon it's all nonsense anyway!