Radfem 2013 and the MRAs

YY, true beer.

FWIW, if that's the bit you're referring to, kim, where she says MRAs = transactivists, I think she is referring to the conversation she quotes where a couple of people are engaging in a bit of misogynistic bonding.

I wouldn't imagine those people are representative of transpeople any more than I'd assume the hypothetical rad fems who kill baby boys are representative of feminism.

Just had a look and can't see cathy as a speaker

Is she speaking?

Sorry i haven't checked teh thing.
maybe I need to check the thing.

I've come across Cathy Brennan and I liked what she said. I will read her website, but glancing down, I don't have an issue with what I'm seeing yet?

I don't go around saying 'men can't become women' or 'women can't become men' because I don't want to generalize what I think about me, to everyone, and because I know to do so would upset a lot of people who I believe are vulnerable.

But I am very far from judging someone for expressing that opinion, too.

I'm also not OK with hatred just on the basis of I don't go around doing hating people generally.

I do feel that as a feminist I am concerned against stuff that happens to people on account of their SEX which is generally pronounced at birth (or before). That pronouncement leads to death, starvation, abuse and god only knows what for many of the ones pronounced "female" when they emerge from their mother's body.

Gender is a concept that I loathe as it (by definition) encapsulates all of the stereotypes about what people should be based on what they were identified as when they were born.

I want a situation where sexism, homophobia, racism, and all the isms are just dead and gone. Get rid of those and stereotypes and roles and we'll be a long way towards everyone being more content.

I disagree with that.

I think sometimes gatecrashing is ok. I just don't accept that radfem 2013 is asking for something unreasonable in inviting only women, and I don't think it is involved in hate speech. I just don't.

Basically, no matter how much rad fems do, there will always be someone to say 'shut up, women'. That's pretty much it. The comments about some of the organizers show it is pure misogyny. It's really upsetting to read and I have no clue how any of them keep doing what they do, when they hear that stuff. I think they're amazing.

kim - I would be stunned if some transactivists hadn't written, I just mean, I've heard it was the threats not people complaining.

I am completely aware transpeople don't have to do with MRAs - sorry, that was my point, that I think this time they've had aggro from a totally different source.

Oops, sorry, my joke namechange isn't terribly appropriate any more.

FWIW, no, kim, as I understand it it's because they had threats and some harrassment of the people working at the venue. It does seem like it's MRAs rather than transactivists, though I grant I'm not really well up on it.

I'm certainly not ok with hatred towards trans.

I think, on balance, it is good that radfem 2013 invited transwomen.

But, I do have reservations with some aspects to do with transsexuality. I agree with beer that spaces for women who were born women are important (as are spaces for transwomen). I think we need both. But something that bothers me is the way that it seems to have become acceptable to re-label women as 'ciswomen' and it has become unacceptable to say you think gender is a social construct. And IMO it is damaging that there is that pattern to what we can and can't say. People are entitled to label women without their consent, but women are not allowed to to describe how they feel about sex and gender. It isn't right.

I really, really strongly believe that feminism is the way forward for women and transwomen and transmen and pretty much everyone who isn't a misogynist, and I think getting transpeople and transactivists and rad fems angry with one another is something the patriarchy thoroughly enjoys.

Also it's in london so you can duck out to a bab shop and get some carniverous action going.

Not at the evening disco, no.

But there was a disco, so that kind of made up for the vegetarianism

Well yeah Nicetabard, but really? No meat options at all?

Is it just me who is feeling pretty keen on going to rad fem 2013 given the shit the organisers have been getting.

I went to radfem last year (the first day anyway) and it was really good and really, it was about women's issues around the world and teh feminist movement and where it's going and all sorts of interesting stuff. Hatred? No. vegetarian food? Yes. And that, for me, was as offensive as it got

I mean seriously, this is a bunch of women who feel that the current situation for women globally is atrocious and the only way around it (and which will help lots of other oppressed groups as a happy coincidence) is a total (radical) change in how everything gets thought about and organised and done. Who runs what and how and why and for the benefit of whom. That stuff. rip it all up and start again. Are you with me????????????

Well isn't that a step in right direction that Trans-women were welcome.

I'm not OK with hatred towards anyone.