Women have their little careers till they have babies. Then they do as little as possible, preferably not working at all after that

My Mum is Nanny in this house, maybe it's a Midlands thing

Nanny is childcare worker,who is employed by parents.earns salary
Nanny can voluntarily register with Ofsted,and are usually crb,and parents seek reference
Nanny is childcare worker

I find it quite ironic that on a feminist thread in 2013, it is acceptable to hark back to the 1950's. So just for Scottish Hope it works

www.j-walk.com/other/goodwife/

So if a nanny isn't regulated by ofsted, she isn't a childcare worker, right?

I made a salient point about ofsted,that it regulates childcare workers not parents
And if people persist in comparing parenting to paid child are I'll refer to any source i chose
Is this variance in nurseries?yes, that's to be expected

If the nanny is really 'raising a child' because s/he is there for 10-12 hours per day for about 3 years of a persons life then I question whether fathers who go out to work and arent there during the day are really raising their children? Can they really call themselves a parent?

10-12 hours a day is c.90% of their waking hours, and unless youre Paul McKenna you'll have a job exerting parental influence when they're asleep, so I don't think you can dismiss the fact that if a child spends the large proportion of their awake time with AN Other then that person will have a significant influence over that person, their behaviour, their values, language development, etc. If we didn't believe that was true, then we wouldn't invest so much time in selecting childcare. It's not that working parents aren't parents, but lets not pretend that the person who is the primary carer (i.e. the nanny) is not going to have a significant influence, because they absolutely will.

Ditto the comment on schools. Parents absolutely do believe that the school their child attends will have a massive influence on their life outcomes so to an extent, yes, the school will raise my child. I'm down with that.

Finally, SM, please get over your obsession with Ofsted. I've seen Ofsted regulated establishments that I wouldn't trust with my dog, never mind my child. Children with shit parents or parents who don't really enjoy looking after pre-schoolers will probably be better off in daycare or with a nanny. Children with very invested, interested, bright parents will probably be better off with their parents. It's not a one-size-fits-all thing.

If WOHM are pawns of the patriarchy, why does that make the husbands of SAHMs? Are SAHMs content to live off the labour of their own pawns but condemn those of their own sex who seek to make an honest living?

I don't think that is what you are saying

Am i cog in capitalist wheel,enmeshed in system that's at time unfair,irrational.yes.
Is the housewife supporting patriarchy, yes
I understand the impact of my actions and the unpredictable foibles of working

"Housewife" "Watching children"

Anything to belittle.

see actually Scottish a lot of feminists see capitalism and the patriarchy as inextricably linked. but none of the sahp on this thread would call you a pawn of the patriarchy, because at the end of the day we're all just trying to get by.

and after the revolution /Mayan doomsday/meteor shower, you won't have jobs anyway and you'll all be begging me to teach you to make bread

How did we get on to housewife? Surely that is a different role altogether and I don't even think it exists pre 1950's. I'm sure you didn't need to have dc to be a housewife.
Can't see anybody wanting to be married to their house can you seeke?r

It would be courteous of you to stop using the inaccurate term "housewife" to describe somebody looking after children.

Satsuki you're spectacularly missing point.Ofsted doesn't regulate parents
Ofsted regulates childcare,undertaken by childcare workers
Parents are private individuals not under auspices of Ofsted.

Had you returned to work you'd not be maintaing the patriarchy
Housewife demonstrably reinforces stereotypical roles dad works,mum doesn't.
And that feeds into op,the expectation some have, that women give up work post-baby

seeker"watching kids" .

Scottish

So does this mean that a wohm isn't raising kids but "watching kids" when she is at home.
I'd be interested to find out who is raising the kids

I was responding to Scottisha ridiculous assertion that with out offsted a person can't be expected to stick to a standard of care for their own children

I don't know why I am defending being a sahp, why should I have to? I don't think there is anything wrong with your choices but some of the people on this thread refuse to see anyone can do any good without doing things their way. It's a bit pathetic and more than a bit insecure.

Housewife- I agree.

Looking after children- don't agree.

However, if I had gone back to my job when dd was 6 months old, as I intended, her nanny would probably have done more "raising" than her parents did - both would have been out of the house from 6am til 8.30 at least pm during the week, so the parental "raising" would have been fitted into the weekend!

if you worked,you'd be demonstrating employment.role model for working,not a patriarchal role
If you were nanny you'd be working,and yes by working you'd be in non patriarchy role
Housewife,not working is maintaining patriarchy.it's a demonstrable construct of patriarchy

I don't think I said anything about "raising" a child did I? Or did you mean someone else?

People who get confused between a nanny/cm/nursery worker/aupair raising a child v. a parent raising a child probably did not use childcare to any significant degree. Their choice, but does not really qualify themselves to speak about it.

Funny how once a child gets to school age, the teacher or after school carer is not seen as 'raising' their child.

I made the point about parent/child care because I am pissed off at the suggestion that I can't be a good role model for my children because I chose to stop going out to work when they were born. A nanny would do more or less the same things with my children during the day as I would- but she is a good role model and I am not. But I would be if I was nannying her children while she nannied mine!

There is a world of difference between a nanny/other form of childcare taking care of a child and the parent raising a child. To suggest otherwise is quite astonishing quite frankly.

If the nanny is really 'raising a child' because s/he is there for 10-12 hours per day for about 3 years of a persons life then I question whether fathers who go out to work and arent there during the day are really raising their children? Can they really call themselves a parent?

chocspread: "The "market" only survives because of the backbone of unpaid work. Hells bells with your logic blueshoes you had better not undertake paid work at all - as by doing so you are just further supporting the patriarchy by joining the "system"."

Is it better to reform the patriarchy by carping from the sidelines that unpaid childcare work is unvalued (where has that got women? I don't see a revolution around the corner) or by actually participating in the activities that the patriarchy values and then to get to a seniority that will make a difference?

Is it better to sell cakes at the loss at the school fair (compared with the cost of the ingredients and labour) than to work for 10 minutes to earn the profit on those cakes and donate to the school. It is better to work for free at a homeless shelter or go to work to earn the taxes that could be used to support the homeless? Is Mother Teresa necessarily a better role model than Bill and Melinda Gates?

Why undertake unpaid work at all? Women can also help their cause by demanding fair pay for their efforts. That is one of the reasons binmen end up getting paid more than the dinner lady and women-type jobs (healthcare, childcare, social work) gets increasingly ghetto-ised. But that means women must be prepared to give more priority to their work - to justify the pay or higher pay - than they currently do. One of the reasons why women undertake unpaid work is because it can fit around their families, rather than demand payment for work for which they could not dictate the commitment.

We don't have to feed the capitalist machine.

Lol,satsuki of course a parent cares more for own kid than mindee.I'd expect so
I expect childcare worker to keep my children safe,content.dont expect love
Cm are self employed for profit,and do a valuable job