Women have their little careers till they have babies. Then they do as little as possible, preferably not working at all after that

if housewife is maintained by one waged male caught in long hour culture,this could be alleviated by housewife working
by placing responsibility solely onto one partner that means they tied into work
if the housewife worked potentially the waged partner could reduce hours,be more balanced in approach

I am the woman in your title as I love staying at home with my two girls aged 10 weeks and nearly 2. We are not rich and money is tight but I think being a sahm is a job in its own right. I respect women who choose to return to work and for them this may be the right choice. But not for me. If we have a third or even a fourth child I would be spending so much money in childcare that it would be pointless to return to work anyway even if I wanted to. I would like to return to part time work when the youngest child is at school. I trained as a teacher so would try to fit in with school hours as much as possible.

I think women should stop bashing each other for their choices - I don't think there is an assumption that women will give up their career to have babies. In fact I think the assumption is the other way around, that women who stay at home are in the minority. Although it does depend on where you live. We recently moved from London to the west of Ireland. Here in Ireland there are many more sah Mums and larger families in general.

Just wanted to say that I think potatoprints always does a lovely job of articulating what I'd like to say on this topic .

blueshoes

I think this is where many of the bun fights start regarding wohm/sahm. Not that I'm suggesting this is one at all, in fact i think we are all being very nice.

You see it that you are raising your children with help of nursery and au pair, another wohm may see it as although she is working she is 100% raising her dc not mentioning the au pair has any input. Straight away 2 different beliefs.

Now, personally I feel if I was working, with childcare assistance that I would not be raising my children, somebody else would be. Now a million rants from others thinking differently is not going to change my view because it is personal to me, the same as other views are personal to others.

I think this belief system is the deciding factor for women and men when choosing whether one /share time at sahp

Satsuki, the solution to working long and stressful hours is not necessarily going pt. It could just be to work normal and non-stressful hours.

Satsuki, do you know your dcs' teachers personally before they started teaching them?

Satsuki, I would not put happiness as the end all and be all, even for myself. That is another cultural trait to value happiness over all else.

I see my job as a parent is to ensure my children get an education and gain the skills to make a good living and lead independent and fulfilling lives, to guard against unexpected contingencies and provide for their families. And yes, their role should not just be to benefit their families but to contribute to greater society.

I am surprised you reduce your dh's job to just a purchaser of building supplies. That is one part of a organisation that provides needed goods and services to society and creates jobs and wealth/taxes that keep the economy going.

Even if you dismiss people who purchase building supplies, we must all be grateful for the thousands of men and women who apparently put their family's needs aside to work ft and possibly even anti-social shifts and foreign postings so that we can have doctors, nurses, social workers, firemen, police, armed forces and teachers.

You knew your aupair personally before she worked for you? How unusual. The difference here is I'm not judging your lifestyle, I see it as valid, do I prefer mine? Well obviously. We all do. I'm not shocked and upset that my dd may want to grow up and get a job as you are so worried about your daughter not getting one. I want dd and ds to both see that the options are equally good.

Blue, you have no idea what ruby's husband does. I can tell you were I to go to work dh would not be allowed to go part time at work.

Satsuki, perhaps another thing that could do with changing is the idea that if one parent is not at home ft, then their children are being 'raised by strangers'. Last I checked, dh and I are raising our children, with the help of a nursery and now aupair.

I was nodding along to drowninginlaundry's post earlier in the thread. A lot of these perceptions are cultural and it is also good to recognise that as well:

"I have to say this set up still baffles me. I am from a Scandinavian country where women all work, unless they are not able for health reasons. To choose not to work when you are perfectly able is unheard of, even more so if you are educated and used to have a successful career before children. I don't know any SAHMs in my native Finland. Children are all in childcare, and there is none of this agonising and hand-wringing should-I-shouldn't-I. Conversely, I also do not know any families in Finland where men have opted out of childcare and chores, where it is always the mother getting up in the night with the toddler, or always getting up in the morning when he has a lie in (I know several couples here in the Uk where this is the norm). Where I live now (provincial town in the south) most mothers I know either don't work or have part time work at home that they can fit around school hours. When my youngest was still at nursery there was one child who was there full time, 8am to 6pm every day as his mum worked FT. Jesus the bleating: 'that poor little mite...being left for an entire day...' When did a full time working mother become a rarity? I have lived in the UK for nearly 20 years and I still don't get this."

Exactly potato, just as I don't see dh as a purchaser of building supplies it's just something he does. Wed most of us be awfully boring if our whole identify was that of our employment

So you see aspects of her personality that would make her likely to choose homemaker as an employment choice (for lack of a better word). Then I see your job as making her feel whatever she chooses is valid, because it's likely she will pick up your true feelings and see that you don't see her as succeeding. Surely her happiness is first and foremost?

blueshoes

Just because you are a mother and you don't work does not mean you have no identity apart from wife, mother and homemaker, how weird.
Surely thats part of the problem.
You are part of this society and you have the idea that a sahm is not contributing and has a limited identity.

rubyruby, if you took on more work outside of school hours and brought in more dosh, then your dh would not have to work such long stressful hours?

So your choice potentially impinges directly on your family, not just indirectly on societal perceptions.

We have brought our children up to follow their dreams, that it is important to enjoy what you are doing. To become good at what you enjoy doing so you can support yourself/ and family. To support your family in non financial ways, such as emotionally. To work to live rather than live to work, so you have time for family, hobbies and interests.

Perhaps we should look at educating our dc and the messages we give them through our actions. I certainly wouldn't want my dc to see me as the stereotypical housewife, so often depicted by society, so I don't behave like it.

I can see my dd wanting to be SAHM and not going full tilt at her career. It is her personality.

I find that a concern, which I voice to my dh. Of course I would support her in her choices, but I will also say my preference is for her to keep her financial independence and maintain a stake and voice in the working world for her security and that of her dcs. There is also the political implications of her choice, but my main wish is for her to contribute and have an identity in greater society apart from wife, mother and homemaker.

So what if it currently reinforces the status quo? Those of us who have decided to stay at home have decided to place a higher value on home life over work. The only preconceived notion I want to change is that working outside of the home is some how better than staying home. I don't want strangers raising the my kids if we could afford for dh to be the sahd we would both welcome it. I'd like to change the idea that it's not useful to society and get 50percent of men staying home too. That's what I feel is worth changing.

blueshoes.

So if your dc decide to be sahp or wohp what does it matter if they are happy and they are doing so out of choice.

I do see your point about reaffirming stereotypes but I don't see how you can make somebody change their choices in life because society sees a certain type of behaviour as the norm.

As a family we have made several choices that go against societal norms because they are right for us, other choices may be classed as a societal norm. You do what is right for your family surely.

Ah, I understand what you are saying now. Not a case of raw nerves- more unclear posting!

I had a 16 year career in which I facilitated many women returning to work, working part time, home working( long before that was a "thing") and working flexibly. I reckon I've made a powerful contribution towards women making choices. My own personal choice- and I was lucky that it was an option- was to stay at home with my children. Other women make different choices- and I d everything I can still to facilitate that. And my perception is that WOH is the societal norm in. Britain today. I often feel like an anachronism.

rubyruby, your choice in itself does not matter. But it is the drip drip of these choices added up with those of millions other women in your circumstance that reinforce the status quo.

The implications of these choices go beyond workplace perceptions.

Although I have worked throughout my dc's lives, save for when I was on maternity leave, my ds 6 has already absorbed the fact from the schoolgate and seeing his friends' families that it is mummies that look after children and daddies go out to work, even though dh and I share out childcare fairly evenly when we are home.