I suppose this proves that women just can't stand the heat.........

I think that a lot of pressure comes via social media. Forums like this one, facebook etc.

People can't see the utterly exhausted women in their audience when they insist that following hcps' advice on sleep training etc is something they'd never do.

But yes, it is a very real pressure that comes from many different sources.

Articles about the effects of all types of stuff mum's do on their kids. (ie working, not working, bfeeding, not bfeeding), pressure from childcare books etc, other mum's. It's all a bit strange considering it's 2013 and not like that for the Dad's really.

It's not just the cost of childcare at all, the workplace and society's attitudes towards it is inherently misogynistic. I have friends in a couple that do exactly the same job, it is one that has long hours and is notoriously inflexible. Very few people (except me because I'm a bit arsey like this) even question why this job is still perfectly suitable for him whilst now impossible for her.

Don't even get me started on the bullshit that is the line 'staying at home with your children is the most important job you can do' that gets trotted out on here in regards to SAHMs. It's not the 1950s and there are plenty of important things women can do other than housework and childcare.

I know...

My DC's now 2 and obviously I love him to bits but when I have a (very rare) night off I can safely say I don't sit at home chewing my fingernails & feeling bad. But sometimes I still feel like I should & get asked if I miss him etc.

Mother's are only human too y'know

Yes, on every business trip I had remarks along the lines of

'it must be very hard'
'don't you miss her?'

I got the latter again fairly recently. My dd is a preschooler. A man would never be asked that. Especially not in a meeting.

Also, after having my DC I felt that it was seen as more acceptable for a man to express a disliking for being a parent 24/7 but women are supposed to just love being a mum all the time & feel fulfilled with that for a while. Might just be me but I know from talking at baby groups, on here etc that I'm not the only one who wanted to keep other areas of my life (such as my career) going...

Cost of childcare is not really a factor for women in positions of power.

It is a major expense, but generally managable for high earners. Social pressure to do the 'best' for dc is a bigger problem Especially when that best is based on the notions of gurus like Oliver James.

I do think the babies are women's work attitude hasn't been challenged as much as it needs to be yet. I am surprised by how many threads in the relationship area are about men who think that childcare is not an equal thing.

The crazy prices, social pressure, pressure to exclusively bf etc. all combine to make an ambush on some women's careers once they have children.

I think that a big part of the problem is that the workspace is run in a very macho way. There's still a lot of chest thumping and "my dicks bigger than your dick" kind of mentality in a lot of senior level meetings and it is deeply unpleasant to work in such a way - it certainly goes against my work ethic.

I also found that I had to shout louder and longer (metaphorically) to be heard and that when a female adopts a confrontational attitude (e.g. As a nonexec director, when i confronted a non performing management team and tried to call them on it) there is a lot of eye-rolling and a real unwillingness to take such points on board yet when a male non-exec in same position starts to back you up, all of a sudden management are listening.

I found that when I took a maternity leave, as well as deciding to stay at home for a bit because of the difficulty and expense of childcare, I also had no compulsion to make a hasty return to such an environment.

Another issue, I wonder, is the attitude of women in senior positions once they do break through that glass ceiling. Now my experience is only based on one female manager from hell, so statistically invalid. However she made it far more difficult for women to progress than men. I have heard of similar cases from other women who had female bosses so I do wonder that if these senior female managers, because they have had to be so aggressive in order to get to the top, then ironically make it more difficult for other women to do the same (please note I am not trying to say that all women are like this!!

Sorry, I've written a long and rambling response, but just wanted to relate some of my experience to explain why it might be more than childcare issues which are at the root of this phenomenon. I should also add that I have worked some fabulous people, male and female, so am not trying to make too much of a sweeping generalisation!

Seeker I can only comment on the way the women around me have had their careers affected and the reasons that are most obvious in their lives.

All of the women I have met at baby groups or through our children have pretty much all been professional women, doctors, lawyers, pharmacists, teachers, etc. They have all taken a full year of ML if finances allow, then the majority of them have chosen to return to work pt, some have chosen to stay at home until the youngest child starts school, relatively few have chosen to return to work ft. So having children has affected the woman's career in a way that the man in the relationship hasn't experienced.

I'm sure there are other factors at play, and I wouldn't lay the blame at the high cost of childcare in my social circle, it's more the expectation that the children are the responsibility of the woman, and that the woman's career will take a back seat in the early years of their children's lives. I don't claim to know enough about the other issues to be able to comment on them, I'd love to be educated about them though.

And wow betide you if you dare to conceive twins.

Yes...the fact that most people want at least one child is definitely the problem. Has nothing to do with the extortionate amounts charged for even one child that would take a good chunk out of most people's monthly wage

What blueshoes said.

It is a complex problem. Based on personal experiences, I wonder if the pressure to breastfeed exclusively for six months and continue beyond that us also a factor.

Alpha women I know tend to be determined to do the very best for their dc. Following breastfeeding guidance means long maternity leaves and limited scope to share the months of sleep deprivation. Even afterward, the mother has become the default primary caregiver.

Seekers perhaps you can offer some alternative views as to the reasons for this then?

If allowing childcare providers to increase the ratio of children results in lower childcare costs, then at least for some parents it would make childcare affordable whereas they would not otherwise have the choice to work. Right now, childminders are still quite expensive even though they are the cheapest form of childcare for babies.

Those who can afford nannies won't be affected by higher ratios.

At my school there approx half of the female teachers with children have gone pt, there is one male teacher with children who is pt. He is thought of as a massive oddity, most other men don't even break stride when their partner has a baby. I am one of the ft female teachers with children and I am considered a bit of an oddity for not even requesting to go pt after ML. I don't even have huge plans for promotion but just love my job most of the time.

I do know a few couples where the woman is ft working and the man is a SAHD. It is seen as VERY unusual, whereas man working ft and woman SAHM is seen as the norm in the early years.

UK has one of the longest working hours in Europe. That makes UK more family unfriendly than other European countries. Another potential factor why women find it harder than their counterparts in Europe to get ahead at work, when you have all these men putting in the face time.

The stereotype, which I see played out at my workplace (City firm), is:

• Men work harder once they have children, because children are a costly business.
• Women work less or flexibly and become rather less contactable once they have children.

It is hardly surprising the men get promoted ahead of and in larger numbers than women, even though women are equal to or outnumber men at the entry level. However, there are also prejudices and soft barriers that stand in women's way that make the bar higher for them anyway. I am not discounting that.

I think it should be easier to step on and off career ladder.Sabbatical s etc so can pick up career etc at later stage.

What schooldi said.

I find it very depressing both from reading these boards and from listening to friends in real life how few people think that the cost of childcare has anything to do with the man in the relationships salary, or how few think that a man's career should progress at anything other than full steam ahead during the early years of their children's lives.