I suppose this proves that women just can't stand the heat.........

I always assume others are treating me as an equal too. But periodically somebody or some event will disillusion you and put you in your place. And it makes me angry.

I know Upto but in my optimistic world I always hope others are treating me as equally as I am them!

I know, I know.....

And actually for the first time, I am in a management structure surrounded by strong powerful working mums who do get emotional, angry and expressive - but always seem to be upfront, honest non game players. It's so refreshing!

I think many things are a gender issue. Men and women are viewed so differently for the same things they do. For example, there are studies that shows that men and women showing emotions are viewed differently. A professional man showing anger raises his status, but a professional woman who shows anger lowers her status: she is "an angry person" and not to be trusted. (This was in the last issue of New Scientist, and in Delusions of Gender too.) Because of this type of things we need to consider gender issues in more situations than we would like to.

I think you've nailed it successfully there Amanda!

I always try and take an individual view, rather than a gender view whenever I can. However I can't help but feel that this is gender led behavior in our Government, and as you mention the Old Boys network, that other countries don't have to overcome.

I'm not sure how it is in the Police force but when I was younger our local constabularies were pretty much run from the local Masonic lodge.

Yes, we have got a bit off track Binfull.

I think the organisation of our political parties probably doesn't help. I'd guess (without wishing to gender stereotype) that the moronic grandstanding and dick waving of PMQs is pretty off putting to a lot of women. Likewise the fact that our parliament is not just mostly men, it is mostly public school boys - that's pretty off putting for anyone who isn't that group.

I also wonder whether women do better in countries with more coalition politics. Not because 'ooh, women collaborate', but more because there is more negotiation and not just pointless name calling and showboating before a foregone conclusion vote.

Surely the point of the article is about declining numbers of women in Political and Public positions, not a general mothers in the workplace issue?

For me personally, as a Senior Manager in a Multinational firm, I personally would have no interest in switching to a political career, even though I have a strong direction to my politics. I think what is off putting is the perception of spin, deception, cover ups and back stabbing that I would perceive happens at a senior level. I prefer an honest days work for an honest days pay IYSWIM.

I've spent a long time encouraging an open and honest workforce and I've tried to set a great example of a flexible manager both to the males in my workforce who need the occasional "work at home" day as well as the females.

I wonder what the Serbians are doing to make it so accessible? Perhaps the female pillars have sacrificed family life for political? Perhaps at this fairly early stage of political development more women need to take a stand? I really don't know....

I'd love to know more about the background of the women in public life from other countries noted in the article, but it's a little succinct in that direction.

Teaching must be quite unique in that it is overwhelmingly female to get those numbers. However, I'll bet that the % of men in top posts probably comprise a larger percentage of the total number of men in the teaching profession compared with women.

At the end of 2010, the percentage of women on FTSE 100 boards stood at 12.5%. Women held 5.5% of executive directorships and 15.6% of non-executive directorships.

In magic circle law firms, the percentage of women partners is around 15%. The number of women in senior management posts probably even fewer.

Did any of you watch Borgen? A Danish series about a female struggling with a mother/woman in a demanding role.
If you haven't, please do!

Sorry crossed posts.

Most Headteachers are female.

44% of secondary school are women.
70% of primary school are women.

m.guardian.co.uk/education/2009/sep/25/headteachers-secondary-school-women

2008 report: The NCSL's Women in Headship study found that 87% of primary school teachers are women but only 67% of heads are women and in secondary schools 57% of teachers are women, but only 36% of heads.

Not as much imbalance as in universities and politics, I guess?

I think Copper's statistic is only applicable to secondary schools, if I recall correctly. Does that help at all?

Are most headteachers male? I haven't found that in my experiences, maybe it's a regional thing, or maybe I've just not had a typical experience with the schools I've dealt with. When I was at school I went to 3 schools, all the heads were women. Dd1 has been to 4 schools, she has had 3 female heads and 2 male ones. I've worked in 4 schools, 3 male heads, 2 female ones, but more women overall in the SMT.

Oh yes, I do remember that bit now Copper. I read it about 18 months ago.

On schools - but most headteachers are male. Delusions also said that people are uncomfortable with men in "feminine" roles and would roll out the red carpet and "progress" them as quickly as possible so that they are in their "proper" role as the people "in charge".

But really must go and feed the children. Back later.

That's what I was thinking, maybe schools are more equally balanced than other professions. I don't know because i haven't ever worked in any other profession.

School - I think one of the interesting things about schools is that so many of the staff are female. As it is a traditionally 'female' profession (in recent history) there is more of a history of time out and getting back on track. My mother found it pretty easy over thirty years ago to take five years out and go back. I've known women recently do similar (though no idea if that is representative). In other professions, the lack of 'on ramps' is far more pronounced.

Without wanting to harp on about childcare again, not having to cover school holidays can, I think, be a massive help to women's career progression.

Amanda - according to Delusions it seems that patriarchal issues affect women with children even more than women who don't have children.

Speaking of which best go and feed the children.

I don't know Upto. I don't know many women without children, and the ones I do know seem to be progressing through their careers just as well as men. Maybe I'm not moving in the right social circles to meet the powerful and successful people.

I'm a teacher and in our school (a large secondary) we have 3 deputy heads, 2 of them are women, the head is a man but the previous head was a woman, the majority of heads of departments in our school are female and half of the heads of years are female too. I genuinely don't see any lack of career progression for women where I work, unless they have children and put their career on the back burner while the children are young. So I can only comment on what I see and the expectation that women will stay at home or go pt while the children are young is the major obstacle I see.

What other factors do you think are at play? I have said before that I just don't know about them so please will you educate me?

It is not the talking about childcare that makes it worse. It is the discussions being overwhelmingly about childcare that makes it look like it's the woman's problem, and I do see that in RL it often is the woman's problem. I don't have a solution. But I'd like to ask seeker what she(he?!) thinks about it and why she made her comment.

Delusions didn't help me on this one LordCopper. I found 'Half a Wife' by Gaby Hinscliff quite interesting though. Not a scientific tome, obviously.

And I'm not disagreeing that childcare is a major issue. I'm saying that there is more to it than that. But in the equality initiatives I see at work the discussions almost always move to childcare. That also alienates colleagues without children. And equality is more than about childcare, even though that is a large part. And in my job/career, wanting to be with my children certainly affects many of my decisions, and I do not regret any choices I made. I am good at my job but have not had any "progression" since a long time ago. In some ways that is due to my own choices (regardless of childcare). But I am beginning to question what "progression" really means and whether you have to make the "right" choices and whether those "right choices" are biased in any way.

This is a bit vague. I don't have it all very clear in my head yet. But I bloody will have it clearer when I finish reading Delusions of Gender and Why so slow.

Married men with children usually have wives who do most of the child care. That's not to say that child care is the only issue but most women I know with children who are capable of taking on a senior role find it to be the biggest issue. It is not the fact that we talk about it that makes it an issue or makes it worse. That's my point about your post Up