What do you all think about male circumcision?

Can I just ask - was this ever actually about male circumcision or did I just totally waste my time contributing when the intention was not to actually discuss what was outlined in the OP but to engineer some sort of attack or fight, hence moving on when circumcision didn't do it?

Eh? Do what?

Sorry, meant to say...
Would you do it to a baby girl? Would you chop a piece of skin off her genitals for religious resons? I'm guessing no. So why do it to a boy?

Would you do it to a baby girl?

So what do you call someone who is interested in both men and women issues? What about an equalist?

When equality is even remotely on the horizon, these issues will be redundant. Until then, only feminists are equalists because feminists are trying to achieve something that does not currently exist (equality). "Men's issues" are not about equality between the sexes.

Rape destroys many, many more womens' lives, Zippy, than false accusations of rape ruin mens' lives. Do you have any women in your life? 1 in 4 women statistically will be a victim of serious sexual assault in her lifetime.

In fact, the men in our lives are statistically more likely to be raped by another man, than to be falsely accused of rape.

Funny how we've moved sylphlike on to false accusations of rape, now. Any other subjects you want to cover?

I think the millions of men who are highly successful and powerful and quite capable of having sex and reproducing without tearing themselves apart would agree that it is less barbaric.

Zippy those issues are not caused by a matriarchal society and are therefore not equivalent to feminism. Why is it that MRAs can't just campaign for whatever social issues they feel strongly about without jumping all over feminist campaigns or women's issues? It seems like either MRAs want women to do the campaigning for them ("you're a feminist so you must be against [x thing that has fuck all to do with feminism] and you must do something about it") or these things get raised to silence women's campaigns (e.g. rape / false allegations).

Oh stop with the bullshit about MRA's, the Southern Law Centre has named them as hate groups and they don't do that lightly.

There's a reason they are recognised for what they are.

And what about the women that are too frightened to report a rape because of fear of not being believed / accused of lying?

There are more of those women than there are men who have been wrongly accused.

Both are wrong, but you can't say that men need more rights when that is a fear women live in every day.

I think the men suffering the long term damage, mental and physical, of circumcision would disagree that it is less barbaric.

Please hear me out instead of dismissing this post as a "whiny MRA post"

Heard you out for 4 pages. This is a whiny MRA post.

I think male circumcision is a horrible thing to do but it is in no way comparable to FGM. Given how common male circumcision is in the US I wouldn't mind betting that the majority of the world's most powerful men have been circumcised. It hasn't stopped them from being powerful, neither, as far as I'm aware, has it stopped them enjoying a fuck on the whole.

I'd love to see the end of it, as I think it's barbaric - maybe ask all those powerful men to do something about it. It's not an issue for feminism, we have enough issues that affect women, FGM being only one, with which to concern ourselves.

Zippy, MRAs believe that feminism has 'gone too far' and that women can't be allowed full human rights because they are not human, they are 'women'. As I said upthread, there are plenty of good causes for people to get involved with (fighting poverty, racism, etc) but feminism is about women and about putting women's interests first. So when feminists are discussing women's issues, then we don't want to talk about or hear about men because they are not relevant to the discussion.

Zippy, your last post makes no sense.

The crucial part of the quote which you have cut off relates to views on circumcision...you then imply that that it was a comment about MRAs.

I think that's your whole problem here, we can be (and clearly are) against unnecessary circumcision. That really has nothing to do with MRA. Your decision to post the op here specifically may well be though.

Oh Hecate - I honestly thought cultures practising MC at puberty as a right of passage was a thing of the past. Really pleased you're standing your ground on that one.

Is it an MN rule that we're not allowed to bash MRA's now then?

Are we not allowed to bash racists either?

The fact that it only gained a few signatures is sad, Zippy. I would sign a petition against it.

Have you thought of starting another one?

Beautyfades, nothing wrong with discussing it in FWR. Odd to post that "Feminism means gender equality which means men's issues as well as female issues, please correct me if I'm wrong." and then when the next poster did correct, to respond with, "With that attitude, don't expect men to give a shit about women's issues."

Strange response given that every poster on this thread, including the one who corrected the redefinition of feminism by the OP, have condemned the practice he has asked us to condemn.

Hecate for you. You're right to dig your heels in though.

He's totally brainwashed about it. He truly believes that it will harm them in some way to not have it done. He doesn't see it as cruel. He loves them very much and honestly believes that it is in their best interests. They won't be accepted, it's not clean, etc etc.

But it's not constant as in a weekly row, or anything. He didn't raise it for years after the first couple of years of it being a hot topic. But now, as they are getting to that age, his conditioning is kicking in and it's becoming an issue to him again.

Conversations about it are very short. I assure you.

Beautyfades, nothing wrong with discussing it in FWR. Odd to post that "Feminism means gender equality which means men's issues as well as female issues, please correct me if I'm wrong." and then when the next poster did correct, to respond with, "With that attitude, don't expect men to give a shit about women's issues." Strange red