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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What are you watching & reading? Will you do the Beshdel Test on it?

211 replies

Seabright · 24/01/2013 23:32

I have been trying to apply the Beshdel Test to what I've been watching lately.

The wiki entry in the link above explains more, but basically to pass the Beshdel Test a work of fiction must have:

A) At least two female characters
B) Who Talk to each other
C) About something other than a man

This evening I have watched:

  1. Rizzoli & Isles - pass, just
  2. The Good Wife - pass

And I'm reading an Ian Rankin novel at the moment (yes, my choice of tv and books is pretty limited - crime & murder!) which so far fails, but I'm only part way through.

OP posts:
CheerfulYank · 06/02/2013 04:52

Well, is it talking to about a man for romantic reasons? Or any reason? Because as Tortoise says, they talk a lot about men in GOT, but they're often political discussions. Likewise the Stephanie Plum books Blush where she and her female bounty hunting partner discuss men they're going to apprehend.

To me, both of those have more of a feminist bent than, say, women discussing shoes forever, even if they're not mentioning men at all.

MsInterpret · 06/02/2013 03:07

Watching Girls and it passes - funny that!

Reading Disobedience and it doesn't pass yet but I feel sure it will, just started.

Tortoiseonthehalfshell · 06/02/2013 02:03

Game of Thrones (reading) - hahahahaha. Er, nope. But, to be fair, every single character spends 1000+ pages discussing Who Should Be King, so everyone is talking to each other about a man. Technically.

Life on Mars (watching) - hahahahahaha. Er, nope again. I feel like the '1970s' thing is just a vehicle to allow them to make an all-male cop show with one token woman.

WhentheRed · 06/02/2013 01:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RM76 · 06/02/2013 00:35

If we're talking kids books, The 13 Treasures, by Michelle Harrison, and the following books are all excellent. Female characters, exciting, kind of scary story.

RM76 · 06/02/2013 00:33

caseyshraeger thought Brave was a breath of fresh air. Lucky you getting to go to a preview! This whole, boys won't bother with things with girl characters seems self-fulfilling to me, extremely frustrating!
You're right, Warehouse 13 isn't GREAT T.V. (did I say that? Can't flip the page back to check whilst typing a comment, if I did, sorry, that would be an exaggeration) but of it's type, it's a pleasant surprise.

ladypeterwimsy can tell you're a Sayers fan from your user name, and also, obviously your comment. Yes, 'Gaudy Night' is excellent.
Weirdly, I'm listening to 'Strong Poison' right now!
Just got the audiobook radio dram of 'Gaudy night', also have pretty much everything she's done in both book and audio. (Ian Carmichael is so good, and Patricia Routledge.) although some of her religious/academic stuff sounds a little intimidating!
Have you read her biography? What an incredible person! Sorry to go on, but nobody I know has ever heard of her.
Harriet Vane, your namesake, is such an excellent character, something modern authors could do with replicating!

CheerfulYank · 05/02/2013 22:46

Birdy. Sigh. Autocorrect!

CheerfulYank · 05/02/2013 22:45

I'm just reading two young adult novels 'Book of a Thousand Days' and 'The Midwife's Apprentice', both which pass.

I actually sort of chose them for their strong heroines. I'm not entrenched in feminism, so to speak, but I'm having a DD in the spring and it's made me think a bit. I started looking at lists of books that are good for girls. I ordered these two because they sounded so interesting that I wanted to read them. Plus the midwife book is by Karen Cushman, who wrote 'Catherine, Called Buddy' which I love.

LadyPeterWimsey · 05/02/2013 22:43

Gaudy Night - easy pass.

CaseyShraeger · 05/02/2013 22:42

DS and I got to go to a preview test screening of Brave before they'd finished it. It was reasonably clear from the questions in the feedback form that their main concerns were (a) whether it was too scary for small children, (b) whether the stereotyping was offensive to Scottish people, and (c) (although I'd say this was a more minor concern lagging way behind the others) whether boys would enjoy a film with a female lead. DS (7 at the time) was quite outraged at the idea that he might object to it on that basis (and, incidentally, I explained the Bechdel test to him while we were waiting for the film to finally start and he found it quite interesting (although I suspect he's forgotten the specifics by now. Still, it primed the ground)).

CaseyShraeger · 05/02/2013 22:36

They aren't just talking about the daughter not wanting to get married in Brave they talk history and tradition and sense of family in general, plus their mother-daughter relationship, so I think that definitely counts. I like Warehouse 13 too it's not great television but it's enjoyable and you're quite right about the range of non-stereotypical female characters.

Captain America fails; not precisely a surprise.

NotGoodNotBad · 05/02/2013 22:33

"got slated by some fools as a 'chick flick' I think mainly because the hero didn't have a penis!"

Well didn't you know RM76, films with a women/girl as the main character(s) are "chick flicks", films with no women in them at all are just, you know, films... Confused

ApplesinmyPocket · 05/02/2013 22:33

Reading (male author) Phil Rickman's Merrily Watkins series at the moment.

Main characters are a woman and her teenage daughter. Good, strong characters. Definite pass.

RM76 · 05/02/2013 22:27

Okay, I'm hoping I'm right with these.
'Brave' the animated movie.(got slated by some fools as a 'chick flick' I think mainly because the hero didn't have a penis!) although, it is about the daughter not wanting to get married, does that count as talking about men?

'Warehouse 13' the T.V. Show. (Sci-if channel have been trying to get more female viewers) they even team two women up as partners, more than once, and there's no cat fight or anything!
Warehouse 13 really is the best IMO when it comes to great female characters. They even have a woman, over the age of sixty, without Botox, as a desirable lady, shock, horror!

'The Guild' (written, made, starring a woman, shown online)

Christ, that really took some effort, there are hardly any, and most are Geeky shows because they knew they had a sexism problem in the area and made an effort.
Really depressing.

Maebe · 05/02/2013 18:51

The Bourne Legacy, which surprisingly does pass.

Was a fail on any personal 'feminist' level though as I spent the entire two hours trying not to lick the screen ogling Jeremy Renner Blush

Trills · 05/02/2013 18:27

Gilmore Girls passes in probably every episode.

ethelb · 05/02/2013 18:23

Persopolis - pass

stubbornstains · 05/02/2013 18:00

Riders, by Jilly Cooper Blush

But it does pass the Bechdel test...at least in places; Fen's doing a lot of discussing showjumping tactics with her female groom at the moment.

....I wouldn't say it's a great work of feminist literature in general though ....(still love it).

coldcupoftea · 05/02/2013 17:59

Watched Silent Witness last night- despite having 2 strong female characters it didn't pass as as far as I can remember they didn't actually talk to each other!

tourdefrance · 05/02/2013 17:55

Just finished The Kingmaker's daughter. Pass

Takver · 05/02/2013 17:51

Last film I saw was Les Mis on Sunday - does pass the Bechdel test but fails comprehensively on general feminist principles (and I wanted to slap most of the characters & tell them not to be so stupid).

Currently reading a book about the politics of food in WW2, none of the people mentioned talk to each other as such, but quite a few women's voices from Mass Observation records.

WhichIsBest · 05/02/2013 14:32

Watched last night - Breaking Bad= fail.
Reading - Just about to start The Eye in the Door, so I can't judge it yet!

AmandaPayne · 05/02/2013 14:09

Watched Borgen last night. Passed many times - Birgitte/Laura, Birgitte and other female politicians, Katrine/Hanne...

CaseyShraeger · 05/02/2013 08:36

Watched The Descendants last night, which passed.

WoTmania · 04/02/2013 11:38

I apply the Beshdel test to everything (so glad we only watch DVDs or, going by stuff I've seen at other people's houses) it would ruin my entire viewing experience. As it is I often end up seething at the end of DVDs.

Currently reading Wheel of Time book 1 (again) passes.
Watching mainly Stargate - passes (as pointed out upthread), however this aren't current programmes or books.