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Original poster

How far do you encourage your dds to 'play the game'? (apologies, long)

35 replies

Takver · 28/12/2012 19:12

I've posted here as I'd appreciate a specifically feminist perspective.

DD is 10 & in yr 6 at primary. She is becoming a bit of a 'misfit' at school, partly because she's being picked on by one fellow classmate (being tackled, said classmate has her own problems & hasn't only gone for dd), but more generally is standing out a bit I think for various reasons.

She is (at least according to her) the only girl in her class not to wear either a crop-top or proper bra. She's reasonably well developed, and certainly could wear a bra if she felt inclined. Although she has a couple of crop-tops which apparantly (and also according to her) fit fine she hasn't ever wanted to wear them.

Similarly, most of the girls are getting into make-up, hassling parents for shoes with heels, listening to pop music etc. Again dd actively isn't into this at all.

Now I'm struggling with how far I should encourage her to 'fit in' a bit to make her life easier. I have to say that I sometimes wear a croptop, sometimes not, and never a proper bra - and I've always said to dd that they are something you wear if you are more comfortable, but that there's no intrinsic biological reason that you 'need' one. Obviously she is more comfortable without so doesn't wear one! Similarly I don't wear (or indeed) own any makeup or high heeled shoes, not through philosophical objection but because I don't feel any desire for them. Ditto to not watching BGT, Strictly, I'm a Celeb etc - don't mind others watching them but don't want to myself.

Now I worry that dd is following my lead and is going to suffer for it . . . but then I would like her once she is an adult to wear/do all this stuff if she wants to, not because she feels she HAS to - so therefore I shouldn't encourage her just to do it to follow the crowd! Any help gratefully received . . .

OP posts:
Original poster
Takver · 29/12/2012 16:59

Agree that the whole makeup etc thing has got much worse since I was young - it definitely didn't start till secondary age back then.

Fortunately out of school dd does have some good friends - one of them unfortunately is a boy from her class who has also been being teased for playing with the girls so is hiding in the classroom reading all playtime! Maybe dd just needs to accept that school won't be so social for a while and next year there will be a bigger pool of potential friends to mix with.

I'm really grateful though for support on here - I was beginning to think maybe I should just encourage her to wear a bra etc but I think that you're all right that it isn't really about that but a wider issue.

OP posts:
aufaniae · 29/12/2012 09:51

Sorry, about the groups, I meant to say it takes a bit of effort for the friendships to spill over into real life!

aufaniae · 29/12/2012 09:49

Your DD sounds a bit like me and my sister. I had no real interest in make up or girly things. (I still don't wear makeup) I was very lucky to grow up when I did where makeup and obsession with looks wasn't pushed on girls in quite the extreme way it is now.

Most of my friends were boys throughout my teenage years. I got on with the girls in my class but we had nothing in common (they were into boy bands, make up etc). I didn't start to form strong female friendships till I was at 6th form. My friendships from this time have endured and as an adult I count myself lucky that I have both men and women among my dearest friends, unlike people I meet through work who seem to only have friendships with the sane sex.

It must be hard to see your DD be bullied, but I think lack of people with similar interests is the problem, not your DD. I would approach the problem by trying to support her in finding friends she clicks with.

Joining groups is a good idea (I was going to suggest woodcraft folk, kind of like scouts/guides but non religious and lefty. I went and loved it!). A practical issue problem with groups is it's very structured, it takes a bit of effort for the groups to spill over into RL. You can support this by encouraging your DD to invite her sea cadet friends for tea and to her birthday, to foster real friendships outside the group.

Do you have any family friends with kids who DD might get on with? Even if they don't live close, you could maybe invite them to visit. My sister also felt like a misfit at school. The girls in her class were bitchy and into boy bands and DSIS just wasn't interested. She felt pretty isolated. What helped her was a pen friend who was into the sane bands as her (these days it'd be Facebook) it helped that she had at least one person who understood her, and also a sports team she got involved with. She plays the sport to this day and many of her adult friends she met throughout the sport.

Will there be a wider group of pupils at secondary school? Hopefully that will be a chance to make some new friends with similar interests.

Original poster
Takver · 29/12/2012 09:23

TeiTetua and Kritiq - between you I think you sum up the dilemma perfectly! Yes, it is quite a small school. DD's year is one of the larger ones in fact, the year below is only 6 children. We're in a rural thinly populated area, even the secondary only has around 650 pupils. (Though having said that this being west Wales the adults around aren't a particularly conformist lot!)

DD has joined Sea Cadets, which I hope will give her a different group of friends with different priorities (ironically really because you all have to wear a uniform and be identical right down to hair in a bun.)

I definitely don't want to push the message that you have to follow the herd - but on the other hand in my experience life is easier if you do fit in a little.

I'll definitely point dd towards Jumpmag, that's a good idea.

OP posts:
KRITIQ · 29/12/2012 01:30

Is there an opportunity for her to make friends with girls and boys who don't go to her school, who maybe don't "follow the herd" so much - perhaps through Scouts, Guides, a youth group, Woodcraft Folk, that sort of thing. The pressures on young people to conform to gender stereotypes (and particularly for girls to look and act sexy from a younger and younger age,) is immense, pushed at them 24/7. If all your peers are doing it, it's hard to stand away from the crowd, but if you have other mates who dare to be themselves, then it can be incredibly reassuring and reinforcing.

Does she visit this website? Lots of inspiring material there from girls who do their own thing and about very inspiring women.

It sounds as though you have set a positive example for her and as hard as it may be to see her bullied or feeling down about being an outsider from the crowd, seeing you continue to support her to be who she wants is really, really, important. Best of luck.

TeiTetua · 28/12/2012 22:14

I'm not sure if when you say that "the girls (6 of them) hanging out together" you mean that this is a very small school with just a dozen or so kids per year. If that's the situation, it makes issues of conformity very difficult, as there's not likely to be much choice of social groups. There do seem to be some people who can do things their own way and be accepted just as they are, but they're pretty rare.*

Maybe it's a pragmatic approach to tell her that when she's with her school friends, she might have to go along with them to some extent but you and she can share some non-conforming ideas when she's at home. It could lead to some mother-daughter bonding! If this is getting bad at age 10, think what it'll be like when she's 14.

*(Note use of "there", "their" and "they're" all in the same sentence.)

Original poster
Takver · 28/12/2012 20:41

I think the problem is that she used to be quite happy going her own way, but she is starting to feel quite isolated. Unfortunately their year has always split with the girls (6 of them) hanging out together, & the boys playing football. There are only 2 girls in the year below, and both are footballers (which dd really isn't).

I guess the one thing she is really getting grief about is not wearing a bra. Fortunately once you're 43 no-one gives a toss whether you wear a bra & makeup (at least only on MN, and you can ignore them!) but its harder in school.

There's a fine line to be drawn I think though at that age between becoming self conciously 'wierd', which can be quite isolating, and being able to be an individual.

OP posts:
LadyKinbote · 28/12/2012 20:20

I think it's great she's not giving in to peer pressure. If you're worried about her socially just make sure she mixes with lots of friends in and out of school - there will be other girls (or boys for that matter) who share her interests. And it's almost certainly not your influence - most 10 yo don't want to be like their parents! She may change at secondary school anyway, who knows.

RiaUnderTheMistletoe · 28/12/2012 20:10

I'd say definitely don't push your dd to fit in. She'd only learn that she's not good enough as herself and needs makeup etc. to be acceptable. God knows she'll hear that enough from the media, friends etc. She's old enough to notice peer pressure and decide whether or not to join in for an easy life, the best thing you can do for her is give her the confidence be herself.

Also, if 'girly' things don't come naturally trying to push it won't make her girlier anyway. She can always try things out if she changes her mind in the future.

BeeBawBabbity · 28/12/2012 20:08

It doesn't sound like she's bothered by being different to some of her friends, or she'd probably be wearing the crop top and watching the tv shows. If you're happy being an individual then perhaps she takes after you. I don't think she should be encouraged to try to be someone she isn't.

Sorry she's being picked on. But that's the bully at fault, not your daughter. I hope she has some friends who like her for her own individuality.

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