Random men speaking to you

FWIW I didn't find Larry's comment to be inept at all.

Kim147

I would not refer to another man as 'love' but 'mate' is often used, whereas I would never use the word 'love' to any woman (except when making cockney impressions to my wife .

However, I have been referred to as 'pet', 'honey' and 'sweetie' by women before. In fairness I think these are more friendly terms as opposed to what you ladies are talking about.

I have been around a bit (in a nice way lol) and female interaction with strangers varies throughout the country. 'Tarra love' is a classic Liverpudlian phrase and women use that on men a fair bit IME. Women use 'you alright love' in Yorks too IME.

Re: the OP there is no hetrosexual man that would pass a sexual oriented comment to another bloke unless it was a clear joke. Examples are asking another man to dance/tango if passing a narrow path and you do the akward left/right attempt at passing and simultaneously shift in the same directions.

If we're talking regular random comments then I make them a lot to other blokes and get a lot back too. But again I realise this isn't what we're talking about.

I'm not massive PC on the issue and it would be very dull if people never flirted, but the thread alone reveals some men just go far too far. Also some people are too sensitive but on the whole most women know they are subjected to more than men are. I would accept that men in countries which are racist and are of a different race or caste or religion probably are subjected to fairly similar things too.

I agree about a different kind of chatting, Xenia. It is possible to tell, of course it is.

Why are some so reluctant to accept that the recipient of the approach will use lots of factors to judge that approach and, since they are actually there in the situation, reading all the verbal and non-verbal cues, they are the most likely to be right?

It is obviously hard for some men to understand what we mean here. I don't mind people chatting to me. There is a different kind of chatting which is all about men wanting sex or to exercise power which is not just chatting at all and nor would I call it harrassment. It is trying to get off with a stranger. It is not about chatting about how blue the flowers are. It is about wanting to get inside your knickers or to make you feel embarrassed.

I think the guideline of would you say it to an 18 stone man and you can see whether the approach is okay or not. I even notice a difference if I have my 2 fairly pretty daughters with me (20s). The help we get if we're on holiday, suitcases, men offering to do things, help out. It is very very different than if I am with my sons or on my own and it's all about men liking pretty girls which of course is not surprising and of course you can use it by sending the daughter and not the son to the desk to get something done.

We have had loads of different examples on the thread from public masturbation of men on trains to someone just saying hello or cheer up love. Someone making genuinely normal conversation they would just as likely be making if I were 85 with a stick is absolutely fine. The ex MP who asked me for sex after a business meeting - it woudl be have been absolutely fine as we're both single if he had said at the end of the meeting would you like to go out to dinner some time. I didn't find him attractive and I would hvae said no but the comment isd okay although after a meeting it's not that usual. Instead the asking for sex was just ridiculous but some people do that all the time and ask 100 people and 1 agreed. It is certainly a technique been known to work.

the pleasure one gets from deliberately misunderstanding posts is clearly a rarefied one,and one which eludes me

one to ponder during my death thoes as an elderly woman with no community, alone in the atomised anti social future

Applauds chibi.

What should I have said to the middle aged lady who said to me today, a propos of nothing: "I never know what coffee to buy".

"I know what you lot are like, next you will be inapecting the contents of my boxer shorts" or how about a haughty "I am not in the mood for conversation, kindly go away". Personally, although I was not particularly in the mood, I discussed coffee. But there you go, I am an ill educated man, unaware of the annoying and harassing subscript of an approach from a stranger of the opposite sex.

'Morning!'
'Rapist'

Not a good idea to resort to personal insults Garlic. I find Larry's posts pretty reasonable to be honest.

(Or the woman herself, of course, if she's not been disarmed by your verbal prowess.)

how about this for general guidance:

visualise saying whatever you are about to say to an 18 stone dude built like a brick shithouse. if it still seems appropriate,go for it.

Looks like good advice!

Larry, if you really are as inept as your posts are suggesting, I recommend following Chibi's guideline before some woman's partner wallops you for your low-level conversational approach.

i also am wondering how these are conversational openers when the . man unleashing such delights is walking away after delivering his bon mot. perhaps i should be chasing after him and inquiring after the health of his parakeet or something.

my inability to understand these as genuine attempts at a human connection will no doubt see me dying alone, perhaps being eaten by one of my 43355 cats

Maybe I'm lucky, but I've arrived at the age of 50 without low level conversational approaches from men happening to me on a regular basis .

how about this for general guidance:

visualise saying whatever you are about to say to an 18 stone dude built like a brick shithouse. if it still seems appropriate,go for it.

Chibi,

That is where I would disagree with you. Of course I cannot comment on the specific instances that you mention. They may well have been harrassment. However, if someone has their harrassment radar on such a low setting that ANY conversational approach in any circumstances is considered harrassment, that is THEIR problem and not someone making a polite and non threatening conversational opener.

As can be seen from this thread, the majority of women posting find that polite and non threatening conversation from strangers is a positive and brightens up their day.

And as for it being merely "annoying", well your annoyance is not the arbiter of what is polite or decent behaviour within society. There has to be some general guideline that men can follow and it clearly is not to ignore everyone all the time, whatever your personal preference.

low level conversational approaches can be harassment, that's the thing, and it happens regularly to women. with my two most recent example, mr hiss was clearly out of order, but what about friendly apologetic mr whatalovelylady guy - he even gave me a compliment! regardless of his intent, it came across as potentially threatening.

it doesn't have to be scary, it can merely be annoying. i have never heard of a man being told by some random, cheer up mate,it might never happen,or give us a smile, mate.

the idea that we all of us men and women recieve such treatment is disingenuos, likewise pretending that such attention is men wanting to make ffriendly chitchat that women are being oversensitive about.

Garlic,

That was not the subject of this thread. This thread is about low level conversational approaches, not harrassment and whether they are acceptable or not.

Some posters have chosen to give examples of what was clearly harrassment. Fair enough but adds nothing to the ACTUAL subject of this thread.

Nobody pretended it doesn't happen. Nobody even pretended anyone's pretending it doesn't, except you.

You are relating two instances of harassment, a long time ago, which you still remember as they were unusual for you.

Women are relating one or two out of hundreds, so many that we've already said we only remember the very bad ones.

Compare and contrast.

But women DO presume on men sometimes. Please don't pretend it never happens, although I am sure the frequency is much less. And they use what you would term "privilege" (age in the case I described) to do what they want.

It is not solely a one way street.

Chibi,

I can only think of one occasion in my life when I received unwanted attention from a woman (gf of much older family member when I was late teens). I tried my best to ignore her fondling my crotch when I was giving them both a lift home.

Hated it at the time but got over it pretty quickly and had zero affect on my view of womankind.

Another time a girl pinched my bottom in a club. I was actually quite flattered by that so I suppose it is different...

what were your responses, larry, when things like this happened to you?

Good question.

Larry - I think we have to distinguish between persistent and aggressive conversation ... and conversational openers which are not rude

Did you really just write that in reply to two posters who'd described purposely threatening (illegal, in one case) behaviours?

... and then go on to wield the threat of a lonely, isolated society?

... almost as if you think women should jolly up to creepy remarks from strangers, in case everybody ends up rotting alone?

ok

with the hisser,i ignored.

the industrial estate guy, i laughed nervously and said oh no, no bother at all, ha ha while walking away.

what were your responses, larry, when things like this happened to you?

Xenia,

Busy people always crave time alone. I think that shows a real incomprehension of what loneliness is.

Why do you always give these trite answers, Xenia? Firstly, age of death is equalising, especially in the environment which you inhabit. Secondly, the variance in the statistical distribution and the difference of the two means makes your point all but irrelevant.

However, I take your point about loneliness within couples. That is because the UK is a very solitary society. We couple up to produce children and then live in a little family bubble, not even involving extended family a lot of the time. A society with lots of friends and conversations across generations and even with strangers within the same community is a healthy one.