Raising Sons

A boy can't win-whatever he thinks he is labelled- merely because he is is male.

it's sad you're so fatalistic in expectations of son op
you seem to expect son be privileged,to grow up watching porn,lording it
really this is all very fraught and handwringing about how son may turn out

I would say that we were the privileged ones to have the choice. I was able to spend the first 5 yrs of my DCs life at home with them,and loved every minute, SIL has been able to have a life with her horses, other SIL has been free to be a writer without a day job and other SIL has been able to teach yoga and do counselling (neither earn a living) -that is real privilege rather than be a wage slave on a career ladder.

Anyone would think DCs were a penance not a joy!

And my SIL has had a wonderful life with horses- not hindered by paid employment!

I am immensely privileged that I had time off to have a family. I adored being at home with DCs and wouldn't have missed it for anything. Unfortunately my brother hasn't had the chance to have time off work- he would have loved it. He is stuck in his job until retirement and would love to get out. My other brother doesn't have DCs. As men they have experience violence- I haven't.

Doing family history we come from a long line of farm labourers - very poor- I think that if they were around they would laugh at the idea they were privileged!

Luckily DH didn't want time off to raise DCs or I would have been very upset to leave him at home and commute to work.

You truly believe that, do you?

Do your brothers have children, exotic? If so, how much time did they take off to raise a family? How was their career impacted by having children? Did they ever have to deal with threatening harassment? If they ever experienced violence, who was the perpetrator?

You may have felt privileged in the family, but look at the bigger picture. Who fared better in society, with the lesser effort?

As the only girl in the family and the eldest I was the privileged one!

I love that people still aren't understanding male privilege... Am restricted to phone til next week- could someone link to feminism 101's article about privilege please?

It's things like realising that males are statistically better off in almost every aspect of life, due to their sex. I blame the patriarchy. Anything that holds DSs back is likely to be outside factors, that would affect a female back to a greater extent. You can't escape male privilege, but men can challenge how they use it.

I really liked the Steve Biddulph book and think there is some really good information that rang true for me in there. But I'm someone who thinks boys and girls are different.

I'm thoroughly glad I'm not a boy as some people have made up their mind that you are privileged without knowing a thing about you and your circumstances!

I answered the question- you counterbalance it by everyday life - you do not need to do more. DCs do as you do and not as you say.

I'm an overthinker too. Right now (have a 7 yo) I'm focusing on responsibility and domestic jobs a bit - partly because I read an account of boys being much less ready to take responsibility at school for their learning (and tidying). I think being conscious about these things is always good. I have always poured scorn on boy colours/girl colours and toys; but at the same time point out to my son that yes, he's learned the rules that society and advertisers are preaching - but he doesn't have to swallow them. I wonder how far fiction can help? We haven't gone down far the 'boy books' path as both me and him find them boringly formulaic and he still seems very happy to read those many books with female lead characters, which conventional wisdom says boys can't identify with. Will have to see how that goes.

I agree with scottishmummy, I actually think children are that simple, love and chreish them and do your best and things can't go that wrong can they? :)

Oh yes Bertie. That dreaded case of "over-thinking". That just won't do! I really am not understanding the insults and hostility on this thread.

All Bertie has asked is basically how do we go about counteracting some of the patriarchal influences that boys will encounter. She wants to stop putting them in the "boys need more exercise" box and also look at how male privilege can be questioned by them as they grow up.

Societal influences will have a huge influence on them as they grow up. So just treating them as a person rather than a gender is probably not going to have as much of an effect as you like as no-one else will do that. In addition there are many behaviours that we exhibit towards girls and boys that we aren't even concious of. Our expectations and the way we interact. We are conditioned too. So surely some kind of couteraction and reaction to the patriarchal influences is necessary?

You didn't - but you are over thinking. Respond to the DC you have- don't worry about the gender.

And you do that by living it so that they take it in naturally- you never get it by preaching and manipulating.

Being aware someone is privileged doesn't mean labelling them the enemy! (Though I realise that in practice the two sometimes coincide.) All men are given male privilege by society, but many men are great people and allies to feminism. Understanding privilege is about making sure white people don't remain oblivious to the challenges that ethnic minorities face, about making sure young men can see things from a woman's point of view too, rather than never noticing sexism because it doesn't affect them.

A boy has no chance! It doesn't matter what he is like- to some he is the enemy! A girl can have all sorts of 'traditional male attributes' and she is applauded, yet a boy has them and they are not seen in a positive light.

its a shame youre so entrenched about male privilege,and forsee it for your son
dont raise a boy with you ideologically believing him to be potential oppressor or privileged
the counter inference that if you have girl she will have under privileged is fatalisitc

I agree with Scottishmummy and throw away the books! It is such a shame to have a baby and immediately label them as a member of the patriarchy!
The last thing a DC wants is a parent prosing on in a worthy way- it makes you rebellious! Just set by example and treat them as an individual.

Most privileged/ruling class is a projection, sorry - am raising a white nt, physically able boy & these are the labels/thoughts I have sometimes.