Why am I struggling to cut dd's hair short?

Yes I will ask her tomorrow what she wants to do, the only problem would be due to her mix race afro hair it couldn't be a short bob unless it was chemically relaxed/permed/or straightened every day. So its shoulder length how it is (it goes up more then down) or sut right right right off.

I'm not having a pop - like I said, no one judges me for keeping DS's hair short even though it's primarily for his comfort and my convenience, so I don't have to deal with what you have to deal with regarding conventional beauty standards for little girls ... but I thought it was so odd I had to point it out!

You're doing the same thing to her that your own mother did to you, just for different reasons. Your mother wanted you to be practical, comfortable, etc. You want your daughter to be beautiful, happy, feel good about herself, etc.

She's the one who should decide what makes her beautiful, though. Not anyone else. I think 7 is quite old to be 'not allowed' to do something to her hair. Hair grows back, after all.

Yes blackcurrent although I didn't realise it was that till now.

That's interesting, InNeed - but a bit strange.... Have I read it right, because it does read a bit like you're saying "because I couldn't have the haircut I wanted as a child (long) my daughter cannot have the hair she wants as a child (short)."

By the way my very very very bobbed hair looking back on pictures looked really cool but I just wanted long princess blonde hair instead of short and ginger.

Iv'e been watching this thread with interest.

My dd has always wanted short hair as she hates me brushing and combing it. She has afro hair it's no joke it's hard work to look after. But I haven't ever cut it (she's almost 7) because I always wanted long hair as a child (instead of my very very bobbed hair) and I don't want her to not be beautiful. That sounds terrible saying it's because I don't want her to not be beautiful but I can't explain it another way.

Another v. Short pixie cut on dd here as well, she is now 6, but short since 2yrs old.
She looks funky, cute and incredibly cheeky, but of course I am biased.

This is a fascinating thread.
DS is two, he's has had four haircuts at the hairdressers, and the last two times we did it with clippers at home "Just like Daddy" - because we're skint, we already cut DH's hair that way, and because he hates, hates, hates having shampoo (and/or peanut butter or whatever's ended up in his hair) rinsed out, so shorter makes more sense.

Dmum hates the way we cut his hair 'so short' and tells me 'he looks scalped' and etc. I knew she would, she's been saying the same about my nephew for 8 years or so. My baseline is that I won't make DS more uncomfortable/miserable than necessary by having him endure multiple rinses of longer hair (it's very thick) when I can keep his hair short and it's a quick rise job at bathtime.

I wonder how differently I'd feel about it if he was a girl, though. Most of my friends who've had DDs around the time DS was born are just getting into the clips/bows/need something to keep her hair out of her face phase now. If I'd never cut DS's hair it would be almost shoulder length by now, I imagine....

I don't know where I'm going with this, to be honest, but it is very interesting to me. DS needs a bit of a trim as he's starting to look like a fluffyheaded dandelion but part of me doesn't want to as it's so damn cute like this.
And yet. And yet. He hates having his hair rinsed. And do I really want him to cry because I think he looks cute with longer hair? It's not my call, really, is it? It's not my body.

I get fed up with being pressured to cut ds1's hair and keep it short - in fact when I finally gave in took him to the hairdresser last week I was annoyed when the hairdresser made a comment about ds having a 'girls' hair do (it was verging on a chin length bob but still keep your comments to yourself when I am paying please!).

I do admit to keeping dd1's very thick, wavy and lovely hair long out of a desire not to shear her like my mother did to me, I had a terrible bowl cut throught much of the eighties, as Ma had never heard of conditioner and didn't want to deal with my tears every morning, as she tugged a comb through my wavy/ tangly hair! Not that I am bitter or anything . If she starts asking for a short hair cut then I will consider it but knowing how flighty she is I will want to be sure she is sure first.

I think there is more you can do with long hair I enjoy having longer hair, so I feel sorry for men feeling they should have short hair rather than the other way round. But I can see there is a pressure on girls to look pretty - I prefer the wild untamed look my self (so dd can spend weekends looking like cousin it!) so silly hair frippery I tend to avoid.

One would think that the mother of the boy with long hair would be used to him being taken for a girl. She could just say "Oh, people think he's a girl all the time. But it really doesn't make much difference, does it?"

I wonder how much he has to endure in order to wear his hair down his back. If he isn't being allowed to be a wild child, surely the burden would be the same as for a girl. But then think of all the ribbons, clips, clasps and bands that a girl might use. Would a boy? If his styles went beyond loose or a simple ponytail, then people really would look at him doubtfully.

boys=practical girls=pretty Yes, that's it exactly. And it stays with us our whole lives...

NoWayNoHow, so easily done though and unless we can find another way of referring to people in the third person rather than using him, her, she,he that is always liable to happen. That mother's reaction was strange to say the least.

Haven't read the whole thread, so sorry if I'm already saying what others have said, or if the thread's moved on from the original OP.

I think parents and children can cut their children's hair however they like. However, pre-puberty, and especially pre-school, before there's facial hair and boobs and face shape and feature distinction, there is very little to tell the genders apart besides clothes and hair, so parents just need to be aware that there might be misunderstandings and should try to be tolerant and understanding of this.

My mum was very upset last year at a festival we went to when DS was playing with a child there, because my mum referred to the "little girl" and the mother of the child absolutely laid into her as it was her little boy, not girl.

In my mother's defence, there are very few boys around with hair down the middle of their backs. She wasn't being mean or insulting, she just made an assumption based on 59 years of looking at boys and girls and assimilating appearance.

Yes I see what you mean Doctrine - especially with Ria's comment as well. I just find it a bit depressing that even so young, boys=practical girls=pretty.

And I agree TeiTetua about boys being restricted, only I don't think that they would be expected to "manage" their hair or put up with discomfort just to keep long hair (unless they wanted to).

No dilemma because all options are available, or because none are?

Sorry Abigail, I didn't think you were criticising the OP, just that people suggesting eg tangle teasers were trying to be helpful given the OP's mixed feelings.

I take your point about how there wouldn't be a dilemma at all if it was a DS under discussion.

I question whether a boy would have more freedom to decide how he wants to look. Most boys get short haircuts and no arguments about it. If the parents don't insist, the other kids will hassle him until he conforms.

You have to have some sympathy for the hairdresser. She spends her day styling women's hair, and a girl comes in who wants her hair so short it can only be worn one way--to the hairdresser, that's just likely to seem totally wrong.

I think having spent years dealing with curly tangled hair I identified more with the practicalities of the OP than the politics, and I replied the way I would have in Chat. This thread's made me think more about why I keep my hair long though.

Yes boys looks and boys decision making processes are not questioned. They are upheld to be valid because they are male.

I don't think that this thread would have gone the same way if it had been a boy the OP had been describing and he wanted to cut his hair short. In fact the OP wouldn't have even been written as would have been a given that the practical solution would have been the route to go.

I have boys, both have long hair, through choice. Most hairdressers have been loathe to cut it. hairdressers have no such qualms about listening to boys. Seems to me that with girls it is about how they look, whereas with boys it seems it has more to do with how they behave. Which I think has implications later on.

I don't consider successfully [ie without causing pain] combing curly hair a 'beauty practice'

I would suggest the same advice to a parent of a boy who had curly hair.

I wasn't having a go at the OP. If you look at my first post on the thread I am fully sympathetic with her and the dilemma. But the OP wasn't asking for suggestions of tangle teasers or whatever. She was asking people's thoughts on bucking a gender stereotype and how hard she is finding it. I am totally with her on that.

And suggesting beauty practices isn't striking a balance though is it Doctrine? It is maintaining the status quo, maintaining the gender stereotype when the girl doesn't want to. So at 2 yrs old she is already being influenced by the patriarchal standards for women. And I find that very sad - as I am sure the OP is too.

men having no right to dictate

I think this is actually a perfect dilemma for the feminist topic. Sexist cultural and societal norms and stereotypes are endemic and, like it or not, and most posters here quite clearly do not, these impact on children and parents from the moment they pop out and are identified as male or female. I worry all the time about things like shaving my legs in front of my toddler daughter, putting on make up, etc. I felt unfairly annoyed with my teenage son when he,asked if I'd stopped plucking my eyebrows the other day! it was apparently a genuine query and he was quite surprised when he got a lecture about men having no right to not dictate how women look... then there's all the stuff about whether to get the pink or blue v tech camera and whether the cheap doll from Argos is too thin and if you should buy a princess dress as requested. It's all the personal as political stuff that interests me most and I have been fascinated to read about Bogey's decision making process here, the views of the hairdresser and the loveliness of the haircut.

Abigail that's a bit unfair, since Bogey said from the outset that she herself was struggling a bit with balancing her daughter's choices and social norms, so those giving tips were suggesting another way to strike the balance. Also some people probably came on through Active Conversations.