Apparently I can't be a feminist because I changed my name when I married.

at 'cheesefest' weddings - like it!

'I would also put my mortage on the fact that there are few men thinking and arguing about this and wondering if whether they change their name or not reflects their political identities and ideas. They don't have to'

When my mate brought up the name-changing issue with her DH before their wedding, she suggested in a jokey way that maybe he would change his name to hers. He was absolutely horrified and said that if they had children and they gave the children her last name, his father would actually disown him. Now he and his father are enormous twunts, but I think this attitude is widespread. It is down to women to change and accommdate and assimilate into his life (usually) rather than the other way round.

Yet another reason why inclusion of gay couples in marriage laws would be such a great thing - I am no fan of marriage but equal marriage would shake up all these old notions of what women do in marriage and what men do in marraige and make the situation more equal for everybody.

I agree, Furo, they are not doing it with ownership at the forefront of their minds BUT namechanging is freighted very heavily with historical meaning and continues ot be so.

Perhaps if all name changing was stopped for 100 years to make sure the freight was jettisoned, people could then start agian deciding whether to choose a name, change a name etc.

Lotta I am the same with my name: I don't have a great attachment to it (usual parent difficulties/it's not particularly mellifluous) but the thought of the sentimentality that I think is the main driver for women to change made it a total no-no.

I firmly believe that many women (as you rightly point out) change because they buy into the whole cheesefest that is the wedding industry and ascribe a lot of false symbolism to the act of changing their name - in the same way that they like a big white dress and cutting the cake.

Tess wrote: "I asked DS1 whether he would want to change his (if I did), and he stunned me by saying he would want to change his even if I didn't. He was only 6-years old at the time, but he seemed certain he wanted to share his name with his dad, the man who loved him like his own."

I don't understand how this story can be anything other than a positive argument to keep your own family name (whether adopted or inherited) throughout your life and not give it up simply to pander to out of date traditions

I don't understand the argument "you choose between your husband's name and your father's name". Your name has been your name since birth. Before that is was my father's yes and also my mother's (by marriage). But the point is that it is MY name and has been all my life.

Nor do I get the "you can't double-barrel because your children will end up with 4 names upon marriage" argument. Er no. They can choose their surname upon marriage as I did. They might choose to change names to their spouse's. They might choose to mix one from one side and one from the other. They might pick something entirely new for their family. They will be adults capable of making their own decisions and choices.

I am always a little surprised (and I suppose, disappointed) at how many women do still change their names in this day and age, but it is a matter of personal choice. IMHO you can still be a feminist if you take your husband's name, but by not taking it, you are making a feminist statement.

Tess, your argument is fallacious.

My name is my name. My dad has his own name. My nose is mine, though it looks just like his. Or is it really his because he gave it to me?

Lanacre no one here said this was the most important issue in the world, but I would have put my mortage on the fact that someone would soon pop up to tell us that there were 'bigger fish to fry' (as if we didn't know).

I would also put my mortage on the fact that there are few men thinking and arguing about this and wondering if whether they change their name or not reflects their political identities and ideas. They don't have to. The onus is on women to change, justify, explain, tell themselves it doesn't matter because the name they've had all their lives isn't really theirs anyway, is horrible etc...

Ugh, it's the trivilisation of such matters that allows misogyny to carry on creeping over every life situation - often subtly - and allows female progression beyond ownership and dictatorship by males to crawl along at a snail's pace in reality.

Hully - so you think it's acceptable to make judgments about another woman, if she has changed her name?

I don't. So yes, it makes me the better person.

Look, I'm not a person who changed my name.
But whatever things were like in the past, we live in a country where

• a person can legally call herself anything s/he wants
• a family can exist with more than one surname with next to no problems
• a man can change to the woman's surname on marriage if desired
• or the couple can pluck something out of thin air and all change
• at pretty much any time in their relationship
• the biggest issue with names seems to be snotty attitudes, not actual legal problems

It's weight of numbers that makes this an issue: women are still changing because it's 'what you do' but that's a hangover from times when it was indeed what you had to do (unless you were an upper class woman marrying beneath herself). We are arguing over a battle which has been won. Unlike the 23746 other battles like the pay gap and FGM etc.

Perhaps the important task for our generation is to support our son's wives in keeping their own names and passing them on to our grandchild if they wish to.

'I feel really very neutral about people changing or 'keeping' their names in any context'

But it's not just 'people' - it's almost always women. It's virtually always the man's name that is adopted as the 'family' name.

I hate my last name - no-one can spell it or say it correctly - and I have a horrible relationship with my parents. I have no attachment to it whatsoever but I can't imagine changing it because I would never want people to assume that I had taken DP's name, which is probably what most people would think, and I am deeply uncomfortable with the message that would send.

That is nonsense, Tess. You may think yourself a better person, but that doesn't make you one.

And all the little "trivial" things go together to form the great big one that is the position of women still: second class.

I'm sorry, but I do think it's a trivial matter. Like I said, I can't get worked up about whether a woman changes her name or not, to me names are just labels.

I know what the whole name change thing used to stand for, but that isn't what it stands for now, just as marriage doesn't stand for what it used to either.

If you choose to keep your name, that's great, and I certainly don't see it as rebellion or whatever. I simply see it as a choice.

To judge someone for the decision they made, as to whether to keep their name or change it, is quite frankly ridiculous. I'm a better person than to judge someone about that.

Oh, I was well aware of the message I was sending, Lotta. But I agree it is not a trivial issue

I kept my own name. For me would have seemed odd not too. But I don't attach a huge moral weight to whether a woman decides to use her husband's name or her father's (father's father's ...) name, which successively obliterates women over generations. There are more important decisions.

But the whole chattel/property thing is gone (on the whole). What we have left over is a naming tradition which is in turn slowly dying out. Just a tradition, not a rule or a law. I feel really very neutral about people changing or 'keeping' their names in any context. Marriage is about togetherness for loads of us and changing your name can be part of advertising your cohesion, perhaps? (I don't know, I'm not a name changer.)

"The history of name changing is the woman being passed from father to husband like a parcel, just a change of ownership with the owner's label attached.

That doesn't sit comfortably with feminism as far as I am concerned. "

Yes, this.

It's the social assumption that a woman will change her name that needs to be broken. That way if a woman does change her name, for whatever reason, it will be an active, rather than a passive, decision made by her.

I have the same name as my son. DP often gets called Mr Waspie as a result but he's a grown up - he can handle it and if he felt that strongly about having the same name as his son he could change his to our name.

I agree.

'When a woman changes her name on marriage, but doesn't expect her husband to do the same, it tells her husband, her kids, her colleagues, and basically everyone in the world "As a woman I am not as important as him". It just does'

Completely agree Begonia. My best friend has recently had a baby and has changed her last name to her DH's, which is also baby's last name. I feel downright sad about this - her own name reflects her Italian heritage (of which she is very proud) and her DP is a total twunt. She made the choice a long time ago that he is the most important person in their marriage and this name-change is just another example of that. She's my friend and I wish I could shake her by the shoulders and tell her that she is worth so much more than him, but hey, it's her choice so I keep my nose where it belongs. But I think she's being a fool.

I wouldn't say that name-changing means that you can't be a feminist but I do think that feminists who change their name to their husbands are kidding themselves about their reasons for doing it and the message it sends. And protesting that it's like such a completely trivial issue is a total cop-out IMHO.

The history of name changing is the woman being passed from father to husband like a parcel, just a change of ownership with the owner's label attached.

That doesn't sit comfortably with feminism as far as I am concerned.

A name is essentially a random word that becomes attached to you. However bad things feel at times, we are NOT chattels to be traded between men any longer. Traditions endure - the tradition varies according to your society, another random element you are born into - and personally I feel neutral about the tradition of name-changing on marriage.

However, I am surprised by the number of women who behave as though choosing to call yourself your original name is an act of distasteful and childish rebellion. I will call myself what I want, thanks, same as they do.

For me I got married in my early 20s (14 years ago) I took my husbands name,I probably wouldn't make the same choice again.My original surname is truly horrible(joke worthy)
My married name is what I was known at in my career .I divorced with 2 kids in my late 20s I wanted to keep the sur name as not changing my name back was claiming this name as mine . I also wanted to have the same surname as my children.
About 4 years ago I returned to Ireland,people presumed that my current name was my birth name.So when my parents moved to the area everyone in the area thought that was their surname.My Dad was not happy being referred to as Mr ex husband name!!

Yes, Tess, I get you. I have a large trunk of baggage around names, so I suppose it felt a bit like a rebirth for me, and a welcome one. If changing my name was unfeminist, I can live with that. It made a huge difference to my mental health .