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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

pole dancing for fitness

429 replies

hairyqueenofscots · 19/11/2012 09:36

in my work i work with very highly qualified academics, i am support staff. they have all recently started these classes and burlesque. I have recently got very interested in the feminism on MN. I am saddened these woman are doing this ,they have everything going for them! Am i wrong? be gentle i am a learner :)

OP posts:
KRITIQ · 20/11/2012 00:17

I think what it boils down to is that if you really want to do a thing, whatever your reason, you'll work out a way to rationalise that it's okay to do it, even a good thing to do it.

Looking back over the thread though, in amongst all the arguments about it being a great fitness work out, that it's fun, that it's origins are in Chinese gymnastics, that some men do it, too, that it's definitely not sexually objectifying if you're doing it in a class, for yourself and not performing for men, there are several snippets that suggest otherwise.

Wearing heels, even if this is only in some classes? Doing a "sexy little prance around the pole" to warm up (and thinking it's no biggie if you just opt out of this?) That when some performed for people at work it was nudge nudge wink wink, clearly not seen as fitness or an "art form."

Maybe folks just believe that it's different when they do it, so everyone should just back off.

What I find really interesting about this thread isn't the passionate advocacy of pole dancing as wholesome fitness and fun. It's the many comments from women who have said they aren't good at, don't like, or don't feel comfortable partaking in other forms of physical exercise. I'm actually more interested in why so many women feel that they can't/shouldn't/don't like sports or other physical activities.

I have two friends working in different settings with girls to try and encourage them towards healthy life choices, particularly related to sport and physical activity. You get the handful of girls who are really into sport and fitness. Mostly though, they face an uphill battle trying to engage young women in physical activity.

Some say other boys and girls will think they are Lesbians if they do sport. Some aren't happy with how their bodies look and feel uncomfortable being watched doing physical activity (some even being afraid of being teased or harassed, particularly by boys.) Some don't think having muscles, sweating, not looking your best aren't things girls should do. Some say boys don't like girls who are jocks or their family don't want them doing things that "aren't ladylike."

This thread just made me think of conversations with these two friends, of how hard it is to try and make physical activity appeal to young women, but within a context where girls and young women are conditioned to believe that they shouldn't do anything that might compromise their all important attractiveness and appeal to males?

So, might the appeal of pole dancing as physical fitness be because it has the trappings and social connotations that conform to traditional expectations that women be sexually appealing for men AND so is a permissible form of physical activity for women?

HeffalumpsAndWoozles · 20/11/2012 00:12

I've never felt informed or qualified enough to really get involved with any of the conversations in this topic but I really feel strongly about this subject, so I wanted to add my voice fwiw.

I have been involved with pole fitness for 8 years, I love it, it is fun, a fantastic work out, rewarding and I've made some lifelong friends.

The girls on the pole fitness circuit are some of the nicest and most supportive women I have ever met. My other big love is horses, another predominantly female sport, and the contrast is shocking, in the equestrian world bitching is accepted as the norm (with exceptions of course), support is restricted to people you know and like, and judgements are made on a whim. When I take the horses to a show I am aware I am being judged by women (and men I'm sure) but if I chose to perform in a pole competition I meet nothing but support.

I've often wondered why the pole community is so open and friendly and I wonder if part of it is because we are under enough criticism from the outside from people who are misinformed or unwilling to accept that, despite its 'roots' and unfortunate connotations, pole can be a beautiful form of expressive dance, an amazing display of acrobatic ability and really just bloody good fun.

I even, shock horror, perform occasionally for my DH, in the privacy of our own home, for both our enjoyments. This is the only time I dance for a man, the rest of the time I dance for fitness and fun and my style changes to reflect this. As a few posters have already said surely "each to their own" applies? Or maybe even " don't knock it until you've tried it"?

I hope I haven't come across as rude or provocative, it just upsets me that the thing I love to do and that has helped me so much in terms of confidence and fitness is so often sneered at and judged before given a chance.

HalloweenNameChange · 20/11/2012 00:01

nothing is immune to facebook photos midway anymore mcmooncup. I am consistently faced with pics of people's half eaten dinner.. half baked baby tummies..

HalloweenNameChange · 20/11/2012 00:00

I think it's unfair that something that has been appropriated by the sex industry and did not have it's roots in the sex industry should mean that people can't participate in a normal way> But equally I do think that the vast majority of women who do the classes do it for the sex factor. Also would any of you who do the classes now, have ever heard of Chinese pole gymnastics in order to get started? Or are you following the trend of "pole dancing" for fun and fitness. the women I know who do it as a way to appear sexy or or going.. in a giggly obnoxious "I'm wild" way.

mcmooncup · 19/11/2012 23:51

Is there any other type of fitness class where people post fb pictures though? Zumba? Step? Spinning? Yoga?

I find that really intriguing.

AnyFucker · 19/11/2012 23:45

Betty, we don't have to agree. We certainly do on many other issues, I have noticed. Smile

BettySwollocksandaCrustyRack · 19/11/2012 23:42

Mooncup- I have lots of pics on fb of my poling........because a) I have lots of poling friends on there who are genuinely interested and b) whenever I manage a new move it's nice to share with them.

I assure you, no men "like" my photos and if they do......so what!

I certainly dont pole for male gratification, I don't flatter myself that it would be of any interest to them.

I have had a couple of pro poleshoots done...for me....for my old age....just to see what I was once capable of doing. Nothing sexual about it.

AF/SGM- thanks for the explanation...I understand now.....whether i agree is another matter but yes I can see where you are coming from.

BuddyTheChristmasElf · 19/11/2012 23:39

no way would I post photos of myself at pole class Confused, in my class everyone wears unflatteringly short scruffy old shorts and vest tops and sports bras with hair up and leg warmers

so who am I normalising it to? I don't do it outside of the classes, spell it out to me, who am I influencing?

mcmooncup · 19/11/2012 23:35

Totally agree with the normalising viewpoint and the insiduous drip drip nature of this.

I have a friend on FB who does this fitness pole thing, and she is the only person I know who constantly puts up pictures of herself in various 'fitness' poses and they are always liked by several hundred men. She is not in heels, just shorts and vest, but the impression is sexual all the same because of the roots of this 'fitness' class. She is a teacher btw, not that this is relevant in any other way than to show how normalised this is.

It is also of note that most people would rather die than post a picture of themselves midway through a fitness class on fb, so for me, despite the protestations of those on here, there is an element of performance for men , it is not just fitness.

AnyFucker · 19/11/2012 23:29

I see it as indirect support, Buddy. By normalising and mainstreaming a practice, you support all of it's manifestations. Not quite so literal as you are saying.

BuddyTheChristmasElf · 19/11/2012 23:27

what about the actual money? I can't see how that funds the sex industry at all!

I don't know how much cocaine costs but understand the chain of events that go from paying a small time MC dealer at nice dinner parties to funding terrorism and sex trafficing

but paying £7 to a gym for pole fit, where some goes to an instructor, some to the room hire, and some to the instructors insurance, pays anything into the sex industry at all??

StewieGriffinsMom · 19/11/2012 23:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BuddyTheChristmasElf · 19/11/2012 23:18

and you answered a completely different one Confused

StewieGriffinsMom · 19/11/2012 23:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AnyFucker · 19/11/2012 23:17

times that by a million Grin

BettySwollocksandaCrustyRack · 19/11/2012 23:15

I can imagine AF!

AnyFucker · 19/11/2012 23:13

I know betty, I wasn't accusing you of an empty wind up....but there have been a shedload of them on this topic

BuddyTheChristmasElf · 19/11/2012 23:13

"Buddy, the drugs industry is heavily involved in human trafficking and sexual exploitation. The normalisation of coke use within the middle classes as recreational fun has lead to a serious increase in violence; a violence which is both gendered and classed"

erm, I know all that! why single me out to explain how bad the drugs industry is when what I asked is how is paying a gym the same as paying directly into the drugs industry?

BettySwollocksandaCrustyRack · 19/11/2012 23:12

Ok thanks SGM and sorry for any confusion.

BettySwollocksandaCrustyRack · 19/11/2012 23:11

as for empty wind ups.....have better things to do, lol.

StewieGriffinsMom · 19/11/2012 23:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BuddyTheChristmasElf · 19/11/2012 23:10

I just don't get how being told that I must never do what men can legitimately do is the feminist stance?

BettySwollocksandaCrustyRack · 19/11/2012 23:10

I hope not AF I really do but maybe I am kidding myself. Hopefully if he does get introduced to it he will be so conditioned that he will think of it as fitness first and find the sex aspect of it unacceptable.

I can live in hope I suppose.

Don't worry, no offence would be taken..I like your posts and find you approachable which is why I asked. I am just genuinly interested :)

AnyFucker · 19/11/2012 23:09

sgm always bothers to explain, but if you have spent much time on the FWR you can get very sensitive to what is a genuine question and what is an empty windup (which is one of the reasons why this section is not what it used to be < gimmer >)

AnyFucker · 19/11/2012 23:07

betty, your son will grow up, be introduced to the sex industry in all it's wondrous woman-hating majesty and have a bit of a light bulb moment one day, I am afraid

I stress again this is my opinion, because I like you and have no wish to offend you