The Taliban Are At It Again...

All down history there are examples of sacrifices being made for the sake of peace (invariably I don't agree btw) and frequently womens rights are a sacrifice that governments make for the sake of peace. we have seen this in Iraq and Afghanistan and it looks to be happening again in Pakistan. This just makes me angry as it is not peace for the women of those nations. These are not the only examples and it is not always women on the receiving end (the fact that Poland got well and truly shafted by Churchill and the americans at the end of WW2 - they fought with the british for a free Poland and they got communism from Russia as a result instead.)

It's interesting that the Yanks are so keen on bombing the Taliban and yet they are busy building their own woman-hating theocracy at home.

I am reading "the sewing circles of Herat" written by Christine lamb - very interesting seeing her views on the differences the Taliban made - for the worse - to women and the underground movements that occurred to try and continue their education
It's a decade old now but worth a read

Iran is interesting in so may ways.

When the Shah was 'modernising' Iran women who wore a veil in public had it ripped off.

After the revoloution the number of women in higher education went through the roof. Many parents did not want their daughters wearing in western clothes and mixing with men at university.

Adding a veil and single sex classes actually opened up education for women in Iran.

Information about the level of female education in Iran is widely reported, as are the latest moves to reduce participation in some places so that (under-represented) male students can secure places.

But it's all a bit beside the point if this thread is going to attract posters who want to discuss the Taliban (as one might except from the thread title) - a Sunni Pashtun movement in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Where does this "information" come from..the BBC? LOL X

They were certainly very keen to tell me they feel misrepresented in the press when I was working out there and a third of the 120 professionals to whom I was talking at one point were female. They have certainly got themselves into a huge mess and now I think almost have the highest inflation on the planet which must be devastating for people.

Nope, not Iranian - white trash British . I just have an interest in what appears to be such a contradictory nation. I know that they are a people proud of their history and tradition, and like many nations in that area they were once at the forefront of scientific and cultural thinking. It is sad to see such countries regress into theocratically dominated pariah states.

..and their human rights record is as bad as the Taliban or China or North Korea now. Terrible.

Yes, I know that about Iran. They are well educated but still forced to wear a load of cloth over themselves. They have never been arab. They are aryan I think genetically and always pretty advanced which makes it even sadder that they have gone backwards to much in terms of imposition of religious and clothing rules which are so ridiculous.

No, I'm not Iranian, nor do I have particularly strong associations, though I have had some connexions in the course of work (a few years ago now, though). What about you?

Scarevola - that is a hugely surprising list, given the propaganda we are fed about the Iranian regime. Thank you for posting it. Are you Iranian? How much do you know about the country? It's a fascinating place.

Iran may have veiled its women, but retained, even under theocracy full participation in education to the highest levels and including such appointments as science minister: wiki, but a useful list. It is only now, after 10 years during which numbers of women in higher education has been greater than that of men, has there been a move to reduce female numbers with stated aim of bringing it line with proportion of population.

Tr, that's true. Some afghanwomen were doing very well. It's a bit like Iran where I have been on business a few times - it was quite sophisticated with well educated women and then went backwards once the Shah went.

When you let the poor if they are fundamentalist sexist and old fashioned into power that tends not to be good for women. Look at how few women in Communist China are part of the new leadership proposals.

The position of women in Afghanistan has varied over the decades, and also sharply between cities and rural regions.

Is your DH an expert on the region? If so, I would be interested in references he thinks particularly germane.

My DH told me that before the taleban, women in Afghanistan were educated and held roles across society and in all sorts of occupations / professions.

As far as I understand it, this did not assist them when their rights were removed when the taleban came in?

I am not sure that women are able to fight, whether they are educated or not, against that type of change. I am not sure any oppressed group will have much luck when the ruling powers and much of society turns against them.

If you are religious zealots who want to rule by fear and intimidation, the last thing you need is an educated population.

The boys don't get education either, in the areas where the Taliban rule. The religious aspect is almost incidental really, this is a cross-border Pashtun movement allied which murders other Muslims as well as adherents of other religions.

The to-ing and fro-ing over the Swat Valley has been pretty well documented, and the levels of education there are higher than those in the areas where the Talibs are more entrenched.

Of course it should be but instead many of them are only interested in their own hearth and home as they are not much developed beyond the stage of Taliban wife where their interests are limited to washing powder and childbirth.

The taleban have burnt down girls schools though and attack female children going to school. It is a mutli faceted problem, isn't it? All of the reasons for the lack of female education need to be addressed.

I also don't understand why this issue should not be posted on the main board - I think it is useful for people to hear that these things are happening.

"There is no reason you can't be male and feminist."

Exactly.

And why do those "rich, powerful white males" hold the progressive values they do, NCG?

Because they come from countries where feminists have already had an effect and managed to change the core values of many. That's why. Those men may or may not call themselves feminists but they've been affected by feminism for sure.

As for whether or not feminists should ride "on the coattails" of patriarchal systems - for fuck's sake, man, who gives a shit. I just want those poor girls protected and allowed an education.