Article about strip clubs in the Guardian

DadDancer - surely you can underand the question being asked and the point being made?

If you feel horrified at the thought of your daughter dancing naked in such a place (as most of us honestly would), that tells you everything you really need to know about the places.

I'll answer that one completely honestly Daddancer.

I have sons and a daughter. I will bring my sons up to respect women - my husband, like Bela's, has way too much respect for women to ever consider going to a strip club. He and I between us will raise our sons not to feel entitled to get a woman to strip naked for them, for money. If, as adults, they did go to strip clubs I would be sorely disappointed - but somehow, with the parenting they are getting I think it is fairly unlikely. There is a certain mindset men that visit strip clubs have - the mindset that it is ok to exploit and objectify women.

My daughter - well the thought of her being in a seedy environment like a lap dancing bar, taking her clothes off for men like you makes me want to weep. But I'll raise her as my mother raised me - with a healthy disrespect for the sex industry.

no you are priceless Sabrina. Assuming you are a parent, how would you feel about either your son visiting a lap dancing club or your daughter working at one? what would you do if this was to happen? You obviously think it's appropriate to bring family members into this discussion, so come on let's hear it

Upset you, did it?

All the women you objectify and dehumanise by visiting strip clubs are someone's daughter.
You could involve my DD and my husband in this discussion with pleasure, my husband likes and respects women, he has never and would never set foot in a place like that, he thinks that the men who do are pathetic individuals and my adult daughter has far too much self respect to ever consider taking money for stripping from a man like you.

How has your family been 'attacked' Daddancer?

Oh that's priceless, Daddancer. Touched a nerve then?

^I bet DadDancer wouldn't want his daughter, or sister, or mother, to be behind a curtain in a club grinding her breasts or vulva on sweaty business men or drunken stag party attendees for £20 a time, for all his talk of the dancers
making intelligent choices and being seen as autonomous human beings.^

Can't help picturing DD in a LDC and finding himself suddenly staring at his daughter wiggling her boobs and vulva in his face.....wonder what he would do. Sit there with a red face, exit quickly or 'enjoy' his daughter's nakedness.

Sorry guys but i didn't notice these two comments until now. Seriously how low are people prepared to go on this forum? I wonder how the two posters above would like it if i were to involve their family members into this discussion?

Insult me by all means, but please show some respect and don't bring my family into this. You may hate my actions but please don't attack my family for it.

I would love to know the actual figures for male and female owners of lapdancing clubs - I would lay money on most of them being men.

GetAll - I think you are deliberately misunderstanding Grimble's post - to read it as a personal attack on your parenting is taking things a little bit too much to heart. You asked how she would feel - she answered.

Oooh, I've found one owned by a woman - Browns in Shoreditch.

Mind you - it was her father who bought it and ran it before her, so not sure it totally counts.

DOS

well given she did the same when I told of embarresment if I met my daughter in one, I rather think it is warrented.

DoS yes she is.

You expressly asked her what she would think. She provided a hypothetical judgement on her own parenting. You then paraphrased and generalised her response and told her she was "a smidge" judgemental.

Nice.

I think your extrapolation was unwarranted.

Sausage - there will always be the Cynthia Paynes of this world - willing to make a profit out of selling other women's sexual services. But I'd still wager that the majority of club owners are men.

Google is my friend - Spearmint Rhino is owned by John Gray, The Windmill is owned by Oscar Owide and of course there's the inimitable Peter Stringfellow. Whites Gentlemens club - founded by Francis White. Secrets - Stephen Less. Sunset Strip - Tony Currans.

That covers a lot of the 'top ten' London lap dancing clubs. All men so far....

Perhaps sausage's neighbour means that the best clubs for women to work in are owned by women? That wouldn't surprise me.

DOS.

Grimble said she'd think a, b and c about her daughter if she worked in an LDC.

I'm just extrapolating that she would also think a,b and c about someone other than her daughter working in an LDC.

Appologies if my logic seems wonky.

GetAll, grimble was asked what she would think if she found her dd in an LDC, and she responded personally. In no way was her post a general judgement on other people's parenting etc, and I'm pretty sure you know that.

I just want the male posters to replace those anonymous figures with real women

Grimble. You are assuming us male posters see women who work in the sex industry as anonymous cardboard cut outs.

I personally don't. You've no idea about how I view the world or the people in it so best not to make assumptions, but I appreciate your explanation.

Perhaps if the men who use these clubs were also seen as humans ( however misguided or at fault ) rather than one dimentional pricks, low lifes and wankers it might help the issue of why they go there, because I think there must be a whole range of reasons.

grimble so essentially you think women in LDCs ( standard disclaimer about abuse / drugs ) have (a) crap parents, are (b) stupid and (c) possibly skint ?

That sound a smidge judgemental.

No answer from Larry to my question, but perhaps he has just gone off line.

The reason I asked about daughters though was to try and make this personal. We can all think in the abstract and dispassionately about what we do and don't approve of and talk about the women in LDCs as if they were almost cardboard cut outs - anonymous figures, offering anonymous titillation etc.

I just want the male posters to replace those anonymous figures with real women - their daughters, probably one of the most precious people in their lives.

Every lap dancer is someone's precious daughter. Is that really what we want for our children? And if they are not precious - if they are abused or vulnerable, even more so is that what we really want for them?

Anyway, gotta go, dinner's burning..

GetAllTheThings: hypothetically? I would a) be very disappointed that I had done such a lousy job of bringing her up that she should set her sights so low; b) be disappointed that she wasn't as intelligent as I thought she was; c) ask her if she was skint (unlikely) and be supportive enough to give her enough money to get the hell out of the dive and do something useful with her life.

If c) was not an option and she actually enjoyed it, I would be forced to conclude that there was no more I could do and at some point bloody fools must be allowed to be bloody fools - which brings me straight back to my original point that I am not a person who bans things because I don't approve of them.

But as my daughters (in real life) think these places are tawdry, sleazy pits they wouldn't be seen dead in, I am stretching the word hypothetical to the point of ludicrousness.

PS I wouldn't be embarrassed though because that is just naff. I wouldn't be embarrassed at a nudist camp either (if I and daughters were nudists) because nudist camps tend to be family orientated anyway. As for walking in on sexual activity - that is an intrusion on what is normally a private activity and in no way comparable to public sexual displays such as LDCs.

Sausage, it's a long thread - is your neighbour a lapdancer, I forget?

Running, several pub/clubs are run/owned by women and the agencies providing dancers are all run by women from what I have been told. Certainly been told that the best run strip pubs in London are owned/run by women according to my neighbour and I have no reason to disbelieve her.

DOS dd would be an adult, old enough to make her own decission.

I would hope she'd feel I'm always there for her if she needed me.

grimble if my daughter walked in on me having sex there would also be major embarresment all round. That does make sex any more or less acceptable based on that experience.

If I bumped into her in a nudist camp we'd likely be embarresed but I wouldn't automatically think nudist camps were a bad thing.

What would you do if you met your daughter ( hypothetically ) at a LDC ?