Misconceptions of Feminism

Also thanks for all the explanations monsterchild! Sorry I didn't come back to this thread for so long.

Those comedy panel shows almost always have a majority of men though. The single woman is outnumbered, and men tend to talk over and interrupt women. The woman is under more pressure to be good because if one of the men is a bit rubbish then people don't assume that no men are funny.

It isn't that women aren't funny. The problem is we don't get the chance to be funny publicly

well I appreciate it's harder for female comedians but there are plenty of high profile female comedians.

Dawn French, Saunders, Tina Faye, Joan Rivers, etc.

And on a day to day I personally don't see women being any less or more funny than men. Maybe it's the circles one moves in, but I don't really see women not being allowed to be funny.

I'd guess it , in the thread context, has more to do with people being v serious about their ideas and ideology

I think it's becoming a commmon misconception that feminism isn't needed anymore.

We need great funny men like Jim Davidson or the like to show us the way

surely the only person who thinks that though is Jim Davidson.:o

Maybe I'm being optimistic, but there are a lot of high profile female comedians ? I'm sure they face challenges men don't but anyone who thinks women aren't funny can't have spent much time around women.

yes but I would object to the comment ab ove that women who work are "more like men", that it is a man's thing to want money, power, have ambition, be the best on the plant at what you do, to delight in competing. To suggest that we women who are like that are "like men" is very very sexist. We need to be able to say that is about being a certain kind of human b eing and not be insulted by housewives on the thread sayign we are "like a man" if we work.

Men make out housework is women's higher calling when we all know it'#s as dull as ditchwater and the madonna suggestion of wife at home as the pure ideal woman is just a conspiracy to keep women down, women conned by their men and upbringing into thinking they are doing somethin gnoble and wonderful every time they are scrubbing that toilet or getting his shirts out for tomorrow. They aren't. They are being kept down and it is much much more fun to do interseting high paid work whilst also having a family which men have known for generations.

I think the 'humourless' thing is a silencing techmique - usually used when a women is objecting to something something someone has said. If you have the audacity to pick a man up on a comment you're told it was just a joke and are labelled oversensitive and humourless.

The "humourless" thing though is applied to women in general

Apparently we're not very funny. All of us

We need great funny men like Jim Davidson or the like to show us the way

I rather enjoy a feminist blog with the subtitle "It's not a zero sum game" - and that's how I think about feminism.

Me getting the right to an abortion doesn't mean you lose the right to anything.

Me getting the right to walk down the street in peace doesn't mean you lose anything.

Me getting the same money for doing the same job as you - doesn't mean you lose anything.

increasing the amount of feminism in the world increasing the general human happiness - male and female.

Slight tangent: The hairy-legged thing

I've not shaved my legs in a while - am too pregnant to do it comfortably, and really can't be arsed.

Am I therefore more feminist, the more pregnant I get?

Am I more feminist during winter months, when I don't wear skirts?

[hgrin]

I don't think so but the idea that there was a leg-hair-length-matrix of feministyness made me giggle.

Sorry, I clearly haven't got my funhating feminist hat on today, I keep laughing at silly things!

MMMarmite
How about childcare ... - doesn't feminism just mean that someone else has to do it instead?

About non zero sum... childcare was something I fought to do, so I'd be closer to my kids... which means that when I divorced, and as they grew up I had a much closer relationship with my children - don't see how it harmed XW? So surely that's non zero sum?

WidowWadman
The main misconception is that there's only one school of feminism.

That.

Feminism is bewildering in its diversity, and I can think of men-hating feminists; hairy-legged feminists; lesbian feminists; feminists who love cats... and feminists who are the opposite of each of those.

Another misconception and one I think does a lot of harm is "Feminists are humorless". I'm sure some are, but most aren't miserable funhating killjoys. Any more than non-feminists.

Still, I'm not a feminist, what would I know

The anti-SAHM, expect women to all be more like men and work myth bugs me. I'm a SAHM, and a feminist and I don't want all women to be 'more like men'.

summerflower - same experience here! i'm doing a phd with a toddler in 2 and feel like I am constantly battling. For me feminism is not a case of being 'as good as' a man, its about changing our society so men and women have equal rights (to pay for example) and equal responsibilities (to childcare say). Then no-one can be discriminated against due to gender. Also I hate it when women say, 'I'm not a feminist but...'

Sorry for the late response, I'm in the US! I'm also not an economist or a radfem, so if my points are not clear, I apologize!

If you think that only whites or men should be in positions of power,or have economic success or that if they are not, they won't have anything to do, it's a zero-sum game. But they do have lots of other options open to them.

There is plenty of room for others to have economic success, it doesn't have to be gathered in one group or one corporation. For instance, monopolies in economic areas actually reduce the available options for everyone and put all capital in once place. However, if there are other companies doing offering similar services/products, there will still be room for profits. Look at the fast food industry, it hasn't hurt McDonalds to have competitors.

Companies with diversity on their boards usually have greater income than similar companies without. ?Research has shown that diverse teams produce better results. In particular, Catalyst research revealed that more diverse boards, on average, are linked with better financial performance. Corporate America has the opportunity to seize the advantage that a more diverse board can yield in this increasingly competitive global economy.? From the Alliance for Board Diversity, May 2011.
So actually, instead of a zero sum game, there's more to be had out there and white corporations are using it!

Feminism(in my mind) doesn't have anything to say about childcare, why can't a woman choose to care for her kids? Why can't she choose to have someone else do that? Why can't she have a career where she makes enough to support her husband while he stays home? (this to me is the feminist issue, she stays home because he can make more, not because she is the "natural" carer)

It's when the economy slides that people get protectionist/racist/mysogynist (as is happening here in the US) because the pot does get smaller for everyone. But that would be happening even without equality. In the US the first jobs to fall to this recession were professional white collar jobs. (which isn't what usually happens) so with those guys still out of work, you can bet there's moaning about anyone else competing with them.

"I think one of the misconceptions about feminism and civil rights in general is that the privileged seem to think it's a zero-sum game, when it isn't. "

Monsterchild could you explain a bit more what you mean here? I've been struggling to think this through on my own.

Obviously reducing violence is not a zero-sum game, but what about economic things, like more minorities in board rooms and getting rid of employment discrimination? I guess maybe they mean the economy is more efficient? How about childcare and housework - doesn't feminism just mean that someone else has to do it instead?

When women have little power, money or protection unless they are supported by a man, it's a really good wheeze to suggest that seeking such power, money or protection for themselves will make them unfuckable.

The main misconception is that there's only one school of feminism.

I think one of the misconceptions about feminism and civil rights in general is that the privileged seem to think it's a zero-sum game, when it isn't.

Also, the media have a huge impact on how folks think of any minority, and they play this by often purposely choosing folks from the minority who will play (either by trick or because of their style) into that stereotype and reinforce the idea that for one to win, others must lose.

Also, you can be a hairy legged woman with cats and have a DH, too!

The idea that as a feminist you HAVE to live your life totally according to perceived "feminist principles". That any deviation - such as becoming a SAHM, wearing makeup, shaving - makes you a bad feminist or not a real one.

Ditto not fighting for every single feminist cause all at once. IME this is usually along the lines of, "why are you worrying about gender pay when FGM exists" or whatever. I realise this is a silencing tactic but I think it's still part of the myths of feminism that feminists have to deal with all of female worlds issues ALL AT ONCE.

The idea that there is an official feminist stance on anything.

I always find that quite funny. Like the idea that all Socialists hold exactly the same opinions, or all conservatives. We are people, not the Borg.

Oh, and the idea that we have no sense of humour. Another odd one.

I've always been a feminist, but for me the issues have kind of been the other way around.

My mother was a 1970s feminist, and really, she has at times come across as man-hating, child-hating, anything which chips away at your 'independence'-hating. She totally pushed me to be very career oriented and not to make the 'mistakes' she had.

It was very hard, against that upbringing, to realise that having children would not ruin my life, that being married would not ruin my life - and that feminism for me is about finding a balance. It is not about eschewing family life but fighting for an equality which is compatible with it, and which recognises women's needs, both as mothers and as human beings. If that makes sense.

That it's about choice. And that exercising choice alone makes you a feminist. And not understanding that without equality, we only have the illusion of choice.