1/2 of all state schools have no girls sitting physics A level

On the home ec and 'textiles' - given that many children come from families where sadly they aren't taught the basics, a course for everyone on essential life skills might be wise. Wouldn't have to be a long one. The non-practical aspects could be covered in Citizenship. But absolutely these subjects should not be, or even hinted to be 'girls' subjects. I'm glad to say the boys' GS parallel to DDs school has in the last few years built home ec facilities.

This could be supplemented - facilities and equipment allowing, which is the rub - by extracurricular activities which would be a matter of choice.

Many of the concepts are quite abstract
That was precisely one of the reasonswhy I did want to study physics and chemistry. Also because they do require teaching - whereas many arts subjects you can go a long way reading books on your own.

It takes a lot of bloody mindedness in a mixed teenage environment to say "fuck how the in-crowd or majority expect me to behave, I'm doing my own thing."

Or a total obliviousness to such factors. I don't think it for one moment crossed my mind to be influenced by whether any other girls were doing the same subjects as me. It didn't occur to me till long after, but my O-level physics class only had 2 other girls, one of whom was poor at maths and dropped out - they were two of my best friends, I wonder now how much they were influenced by my choice to do it?

Lurcio - I am sure you are right, but I just don't understand how a girl who excels in physics & maths (because that's how their intellect is set up) can NOT do them.

But physics isn't hard! It's logical.

And intellectually stimulating - application of theory to the real world. How much more interesting and relevant can you get?

I know that some people don't "get" the logic and do find it hard, but that's the case across both genders. I am absolutely amazed that people still exist who think that girls are innately non-scientific. Thought that idea had died about 100 years ago.

As for home economics, we had textiles and food lessons at my school (girls' school) and I learnt nothing whatsoever of any use to anyone.
I learnt how to cook and how to sew on buttons/make small repairs to clothes at home.

For me the central issue is that girls seem to exhibit different behaviour in single sex and mixed schools (though it may not be a clean comparison as I guess the few single sex schools left are likely to be fee-paying or grammar schools).

My PhD (as a mature student) is in theoretical physics, and I now work in R&D in geosciences. The thing that struck me was how closely this news paralleled my school experience. I went to a girls' comp in the late 70s/early 80s, which went mixed when I was in the upper 6th. In my year, (the last all girls year) there were about 10 girls doing A level maths and mechanics (the traditionally boyish pairing if you were in a mixed school) and about 6 doing maths and stats, 8 doing physics and 6 doing further maths. The year after there was a handful of girls doing maths and stats and 1 girl doing maths and mech, physics and further maths. At the time, my reading of the situation was that once boys were there in school as well as outside, the girls began to police their behaviour in school to ensure they were suitably feminine and attractive - and that doing maths and physics wasn't suitably feminine and attractive (think all those stereotypes in films of the time about nerdy unattractive women scientists). In a single sex day school, girls could do what interested them during the day without having to worry about their sexual attractiveness, then put on whatever performance they wanted to/felt they had to outside school. It takes a lot of bloody mindedness in a mixed teenage environment to say "fuck how the in-crowd or majority expect me to behave, I'm doing my own thing."

I agree, mumzy, and even children who are clearly future candidates for Russell Group universities will avoid subjects that they might possibly not get top grades in, in order to ensure that full house of A* that they think is the first filter on their UCAS form.

I think the dumbing down of the education system in general has had an enormous negative impact on traditionally harder subjects such as science and MFL. Pupils now expect to get A* in subjects and tend to drop the ones they don't think they will easily perform well in. I did all 3 sciences at O level and physics was definitely the hardest of the 3. Many of the concepts are quite abstract, involved maths and were initially Difficult to grasp. Even in the 80 s far more boys studied physics than girls.

I'm not sure that "home economics" as traditionally taught in England is much use, but sometimes I read threads on MN and am at the lack of knowledge about very basic issues of home and personal hygiene, nutrition etc, adequate knowledge of which would improve people's lives immensely.

A friend's son is doing maths, physics ad chemisty A Levels. In one class there are three students, and in another only 2, sorry I can't remmebr which subjects.

If a school only has two students sitting a subject then a figure of no girls isn't actually that bad.

But you wouldn't need to google eg molecular structure, so you might miss that gem.

you can google how to make a circuit board too lol!!

And surely learning how the world around you works is one of the most wonderful things you can do! I always think how lucky DC are now, growing up in a world with so much information a mouse click away. I am 35 and it still makes me feel like a 5 year old when I look at my laptop and think that it's actually made up of components that are made up of molecules and atoms and that contain tiny charged particles.

You can google how to use a sewing machine an have it sorted in minutes.

Parental expectation and pressure sucks whichever way it's leaning. My MIL is an arse, but I'm always sorry for her that she was forced to leave school at 16. By her mother, who said there was no point in her staying on to do A levels, because she was only going to end up getting married and stopping work.

I have a sewing machine - my MIL gave it to me when I got married. I've never touched it. I had to use one at school for 3 years and hated every second of it. I have a job. I pay people to make curtains for me.

The point is that people should have the option to choose. The real option, that includes making sure the way subjects are taught and classes are organised isn't putting off those DC who are interested in them.

the point is i grew up thinking that these traditionally female subjects were useless, worthless, no point in learning, and now I want to know these things.

It would be more useful to me to know how to use a sewing machine then know how to make a circuit board and what a relay switch and resistor do.

This idea that females are encouraged by society in to certain roles and away from other things, my experience is exactly the opposite, i may have wanted to do child development, but would have never dare told my family, they would have thought it was a waste of time.

and then when I had my own kids I studied it later on in life.

If I did physics my family would have been immensely proud. I did economics, politics, chemistry and maths

I'd have run from that as a teenager! Actually, I'd run from it now!

child development i think it was, not actually childcare

Childcare? They teach that?

i remember making circuits in year 2. that was like 89/90

for the gendering crap

I did d&t electronics, most of my friends did food tech, or textiles, a lot did childcare as well.

tbh I only did it out of repulsion for girly stuff. The other options would have been a lot more useful to me (well maybe not food tech, but definitely textiles!)

Single sex schools are great for girls. It never occured to me that certain subjects were seen as 'male'. That hit me at university - a friend did engineering and her year was 99% male.

grimma as coincidence would have it I ordered the Primary 2 Electronics kit for dd1 last week. It arrived today..it is GREEEAT!! we've had brilliant fun with it this evening

can hugely recommend it to anyone with primary aged kids

do schools have this kind of stuff now? i only remember making circuits at school, in secondary school

grimma :)

peppa - the law would be all the better for more lawyers trained in science and maths - esp statistics. Good for her!

duchess...girls toys are symmetrical are they? Now I know why I was so drawn to crystallography!

But seriously... I wish people would just ignore the marketing labels. Buy lego, k'nex, chemistry and electronics sets for the girls in your life... and a few dolls as well if they want them.

I rest my case:

Toys for Boys

Toys for Girls