1/2 of all state schools have no girls sitting physics A level

When I was at school the girls sat at the back of the physics class and the teacher ignored us completely. It was expected that we would be crap at it so of course we were. One day I moved to the front in feminist protest and the teacher was very dismissive. Of course I didn't understand it because I had missed too much. It just reinforced to me the idea that I couldn't as a girl be any good, so I ended up convincing myself it was boring and that I didn't have any interest in physics as a subject.

Now I have begun to be interested in it and I see how much I could have loved it if I'd had a teacher who had tried to engage us girls. I feel quite angry about it tbh.

ethel - ah - I'd thought genetics types did more sequence analysis type stuff (I write life science software that does some of that and molecular mechanics type stuff, not so much kinetics though).

I just read this recent article about how the numbers of women in science and engineering are 'alarmingly low'

www.alphagalileo.org/ViewItem.aspx?ItemId=124562&CultureCode=en

I agree that physics and maths are very related at a-level. When I did them, they'd tried to teach us physics without the maths. That meant that those of us doing maths a-levels found some of the physics a-level really simple, while those without the mathematical framework were often a bit confused.

I find the assertions that there is no point in studying a degree in sciences unless you want to be a science teacher. FFS you could say the same about an english lit degree!

I'm a health journo btw.

I had no idea prior to starting my degree in chemistry what the career possibilities really were, it was simply my favourite and best subject. It was sold to me as a degree that had great potential across the board (Mrs Thatcher was in power at the time as an example). I did a sandwich degree and was extremely lucky with my industrial placement, it was brilliant and I went straight into similar work on graduation and took it from there. A lot of luck was involved, that's not generally enough, but I do think schemes for getting scientists into school, or better still pupils on visits to scientific employers can make a big difference.

@grimma yes as when you study genetics and biological chemistry you are basically looking at a complex molecular soup with stuff banging into each other, reacting, sticking together and making stuff and the rate at which all this happens (and makes the world we live in today) is governed by forces.

And of course there's stuff like the molecular clock which sort of dictates the rate of evolution...

sepcialising in genetics which involves LOADS of forces type stuff
does it? how fascinating, wouldn't have thought it. (now wants to know more... )

btw I am considering doing a maths a-level and then have another go at the physics a-level

also trying to get some advanced html training at work so it wasn't all downhill. I got a biology degree in the end, sepcialising in genetics which involves LOADS of forces type stuff.

I did physics AS (alongside biology and chemistry) and hated it as it is basically designed as an add-on to the maths a-level which wasn't really made sufficiently clear to me. I wasn't doing maths a-level but the rest of the class was (a class that was nearly half girls btw) and really struggled with that aspect of it as the teacher chose to "skim" over it.

One of the probs with physics and maths a-levels is you kind of need to take them all together (physics, maths, further maths etc) to get the most out of them and you get such limited options post 16 this is hard.

Plus, the syllabus was dull. I enjoyed the physical chemistry I did much more. A lot of the a-level was electronics which I still HATE and don't really feel is that beneficial to the study of science as a whole. More engineering tbh but you don't do that at a-level.

maybe people should be able to do engineering a-levels and keep the pure science separate.

I recall back in the late 70s and early 80s in a state secondary school in Ireland a Leaving Class honours physics class fairly well balanced among boys and girls. Everyone there was doing honours maths. There wasn't enough interest to offer a general level physics class. Despite the fairly equal interest, it seemed therefore to interest the more hardcore maths/sciencey group, people who knew their future might lie in engineering or science, or at the least, bright students who wanted to keep their options open, which they could because of the broad based Irish Leaving Cert curriculum. From that class came a doctor, a professor of astrophysics, and about a dozen graduates in various sciences and engineering. Plus a couple of humanities people.

I honestly don't know how you would study physics without maths. Due to the way students in the British system are forced to study only a selective number of courses, choosing physics and maths means you are effectively choosing the engineering/maths/science path for yourself. Girls are not falling over each other in droves trying to get into these areas, which is a shame, but perhaps it is because you necessarily foreclose other areas that might be equally attractive when you plump for physics that girls won't give it a whirl?

The DCs in American HS did physics in junior year after biology in freshman year and chemistry in sophomore year. For their final year none of them opted to take physics at AP level. They went for AP biology instead. Physics was considered hard enough to avoid because at that stage there were too many other hard/time consuming subjects to tackle. Nevertheless they all had to do it/will have to do it in university (the beauty of the American system is that even if you are doing a degree in a humanities subject you will probably still end up doing calculus 3 and advanced physics)

Single sex schools I think can help. My daughter did physics here www.nlcs.org.uk/Science/Physic.php

I am absolutely fed up talking to men who want their daughters to go into fashion or unpaid roles because presumably they expect they will marry and who are encouraging their sons into well paid jobs. I know that's anecdotal but there still seems to be so much of it about and it needs to be challenged.

Anyway, everyone should choose what they do, but their choices need to be informed. (Career options, salary possibilities etc.)

up to a point... I think we also should encourage following a subject because its so fascinating, without necessarily knowing where it will lead. When I went into my chemistry degree, I honestly had very little idea what chemists did in the real world, and I knew I didn't want to teach. I might have been put off by the career options for chemists available then... what I ended up doing really hadn't been invented at that point, and that's one of the fantastic things about science and engineering, isn't it!

Working at one of the few all-girls schools left, I see a huge interest in science subjects here. The girls aren't infulenced over what is seen as a traditional boy/girl subject. Everyone is encouraged to have a go. Check us out: Knighton House School.

I'm a scientist that loves crochet and cooking . I like the logic and orderliness that goes with all three. I would say that I'm not creative though, i love following recipes and patterns but very limited in the designing department.

I am an engineer who loves crocheting and cooking. (actually, I'm obsessed my crocheting). However, I pay someone to do the cleaning. Does that mean I like home economics or not?

Anyway, everyone should choose what they do, but their choices need to be informed. (Career options, salary possibilities etc.)

Engineering requires many soft skills (which apparently girls are good at) and the ability to plan and programme and I think the profession misses out by not having enough women in it.

Oh, and because there are so few women, my maternity pay was great!

I could almost be Lizzy - did A-levels in 1993. There were two girls in our class of about 15. I went on to do an engineering degree (which has served me well). I'm a relatively high earner working part time with my own business.

I think you need to do maths to find physics easy.

My perception is that at A-level, bright boys who didn't really know what to do choose physics. Bright girls who didn't really know what to do choose English.

The number of girls doing physics doesn't seem to have increased since I did Physics A-levels 20 years ago.

I would love more women to do Physics and go into Engineering etc. because I would love some female company in my working life!

A lot of people (boys and girls) struggle with certain concepts with physics and I think girls might give up more easily - possibly girls have to be more confident to feel able to continue with a subject. Who knows?

Should we propose a Science Club topic?

I'm a female engineer with Physics and Maths A level. About 5-10% females on those courses at the time.

I would say the "feminine" subjects are more like humanities, sociology etc that my nieces all seem to be taking. Textiles and nutrition are practically chemical engineering at high level.

Baking, sewing, woodwork, metalwork are craft skills which are part of life alongside academic subjects, and the dying out of these skills is yet another scandal IMO.

I design underground structures for a living but it doesn't stop me icing a cake or sewing my own curtains when I get home.

I did physics A level, along with history and sociology. No maths along with it. I got an A.

I was at an all girls' (state) school -that I hated- , so maybe that was something to do with it?

I really enjoyed studying it, and my only regret was that I couldn't take it further as I had dropped maths after GCSE as it bored me rigid.

Hello all

I'm a Physicist. I never really wanted to do anything else from the age of about 11. I was always good at maths at primary school, and when someone introduced me to telescopes and stars, that was it. I went to a mixed comp to 13 then to a girls' comp. Both were actually quite encouraging, but I think they realised that they'd have to put a hell of an obstacle in my way to stop me.

When I got to university, about 20% of the intake was female, which was above average for the time (mid-80s). Looking back, we all were determined to use our degrees. I think most of us did further degrees/became teachers and researchers.

I got diverted from my original dream to become an astronomer; I went into Medical Physics instead (waves at MOH100), did a MSc to see if I liked it, then a PhD. 20 years later I'm a senior physics fellow doing full-time research with medical imaging.

I love it. I'd hate to be doing anything else.

My daughter goes to a selective single-sex independent school and physics is a very popular A level subject. Her school excels in giving girls high expectations and no end of opportunities to explore their subjects eg entering competitions, attending events at universities. There are no "soft options " at the school , no psychology/media studies/home economics etc .
She has turned out to be more interested in humanities and languages and will probably read Classics at university. The school has been spot-on though. It is not about money .
It is a lot about peer groups, expectations of teachers and expectations of parents . All in all this turns out high achieving , confident girls . Plenty of other schools could follow their example . I do think that the single sex aspect is important for girls, though . I did science A levels at single sex comprehensive . We didn't have the quality of teaching or the opportunities my daughter has had, but peer group support and parental expectations probably saw us through .

I did not do physics A-level (90s), but really I should have been the ideal candidate. I did do Maths and Chemistry and I love a good equation.

You know why I didn't? Because at my school we did combined dual honours science (comprehensive, no single subjects or triple offered) and all the physics was really dull mechanics mostly involving wheels. I hated it with a passion and dropped it.

Every subject needs to fight for its pupil and, IME, physics did a really bad job engaging people. Those who took it tended to be people who needed physics for their job choice, so the fact that there are few women who aspire to be engineers, etc fed back into few taking A-level. The medics, etc all took biology instead.

I did maths and chemistry A level. I contemplated doing physics but it really didn't interest me and i knew i would be bored. The class was very male dominated, i think there were 2 girls who did physics A level. I didn't think anything of it at the time but this is all very interesting.

Sorry funny - speed mumsnetting in between dealing with children so didn't have time to read full thread

Only kidding: loads of engineers in my family, including females, as I mentioned upthread and nephew is reading physics at Imperial (v few girls on the course though)