1/2 of all state schools have no girls sitting physics A level

Yes, it was a girls' school...

That's amazing, rabbit - all of them?!! Was that a girls' school?

My little one is so curious about the world, and I am so grateful that I am now in a position to answer her questions sensibly.

She knows that humans came from monkeys (though I am pretty sure I said apes, unless I wasn't speaking English at the time, which is quite probable, come to think of it), and birds from dinosaurs, and that the stars are still there during the day, we just can't see them because the sun is so bright, and that the Sun is a star, it just looks so big because it's so close.

I want her to make her own way, and do and become whatever is best for her, without being trammeled by other people's stupid ideas.

So I hope I won't be too disappointed and condemning if she ends up wanting to be a hairdresser or a fashion model...

All the science teachers at our school were women. I had quite a few relatives (including a woman) who were engineers, a school which pushed science and a family with several women scientists in it and I was still undecided... I felt I was quite good at science but even better at other things and wanted to be the best at whatever I did... Maybe I had the opposite issue of most people and reacted against the feeling I was being pushed in one direction, which in my case was towards science and engineering. These days, I think I might rather have enjoyed it after all! Some people are just too bloody minded...

I think there's a hangover of attitudes from the British class system (social not academic!) which says that technical subjects are not what a gentleman would do, and certainly not a lady. I mean, it leads to trade, not quite the thing.

Whereas in Europe, there's a tradition of scientists and yes, even engineers, being intellectuals as well. So if kids are doing mixed subjects in school, maybe there could be a move in that direction.

I was the only girl in A level physics IIRC, the main problem was that the teacher was a former electronics engineer and I've never had any head for circuitry and semiconductors.

I do think it should be promoted that doing physics is a gateway to many really interesting technical careers such as engineering. When I looked at a career change there were a number of management consulting type opportunities as well (systems analysis?) where they said engineering graduates were favoured as they were both numerate and had good problem solving. You never have any idea of those career paths at age 16.

I suspect a lot of girls imagine that physics A level would only lead to being a physics teacher or some kind of white-coat researcher (which of course is worthy in itself). I would not have had any awareness of engineering were it not for the Girls into Engineering promotions being run in the 1980s (Insight courses, anyone?) but as soon as I saw it I knew that was what I wanted to do.

I was one of 3 girls doing physics A level in my class of about 12. Our teacher was quite sexist, I remember one lesson the boys were given experiments to do & us girls were given something to write on overhead projector sheets

One of the girls who ended up doing medicine from my year in school did bio and chem plus honours maths, history, and French (as well as Irish and English, making up the 7 subject Leaving Cert quota) -- she didn't do physics though that was acceptable as a lab science in Irish universities.

I was the only person in my A-level maths group not to be doing sciences with it. I thought it a bit of a bonus to be doing applied maths without having to do physics - I got to understand a tiny bit of the physics A-level syllabus without having to do the physics A-level... a shame I didn't get to do any statistics, though, as that would have been very useful... just shows how illogical some of the combinations of subjects can be, depending on what your school offers!

One of the reasons physics was taught in the third year of the DCs' US high school was so that the students' maths background would be sufficient, especially for the honours physics course. In that school, if you wanted to do any science at honours level you had to be enrolled in honours maths too.

we didn't have the choice of what maths - our maths teacher said applied maths was basically a waste of time (because you learn all t he concepts in the other subjects).
we all did pure and statistics

my physics and maths a-levels didn't overlap.
all the maths i needed was taught in the physics lessons as part of the physics.
(acceleration/velocity/ etc)

"Seeker I think it's great that at your dd's school there are girls doing physics for fun, but do they not need some additional maths? "

Apparently not- they do have to have an A for GCSE maths though.....

I agree that there wasn't much choice, it was science or arts/humanities, certainly back in the 80s when I did mine. As a result, having chosen the science route at 16, I feel woefully undereducated in humanities and arts.

Maillot I managed Physics without Applied Maths perfectly well, I only did Pure Maths. Probably should have done Pure&Applied with hindsight.

Seeker I think it's great that at your dd's school there are girls doing physics for fun, but do they not need some additional maths? There was one person in my A level chemistry class who wasn't doing maths and she needed extra maths help just for the physical chemistry. Lord knows how anyone could have coped with the maths in physics without a lot of extra work in their own time if they weren't doing applied maths as well.

I accept alot may have changed since 1988 but honestly, most of applied maths overlapped directly with the maths required for the mechanics part of physics.

Well, in my day, practically no one did a mixture of science and arts A levels. Obviously if you were heading for a sciency career you'd still have to do all sciences, but it has to be good for society that people are doing mixtures now.
Liberal artists with some awareness of scientific method has to be a good idea?

No problem with being a leisure physicist, but if you have an eye to doing engineering or physics at university, I think you'd have a hard time convincing them you could do it without a maths A-level. My perception of universities is that if you want to do a science degree, they already want you to be a seriously committed scientist... Maybe I'm wrong these days, but I don't think I was in my day, when the IB was a weird oddity that people in other countries did rather than something most UK universities had to seriously consider.

Interesting. At my dd's all girl school, they went to considerable lengths to tell the girls that you can do physics without maths- there are quite a few doing physics with arts subjects. Dd was doing English, history, theatre studies and physics, and the school was more than happy with that. When she moved to a different school, she could have done the same combination- the Head of 6th form said they had plenty of what he called "leisure physicists". Sadly, the class was full so she had to do something else.

I think it works differently for boys because boys are happier with their gender stereotyping/don't ask themselves quite so much whether they are the victims of it! I'm sure there are boys out there who would like to take a wider range of options post-16, too, though, not just girls.

Rabbitstew - I'm interested in your view as to why the analysis would work differently for boys: the constraints on timetabling, subject combinations, etc, are the same so they don't - of themselves - explain the gender disparity.

Haven't read most of the posts... but my view on why I, personally, and why possibly other girls didn't do A-level physics is because there was a limit to the number of subjects I could study at A-level. The problem with physics is that it automatically goes with maths (which I enjoyed and did study at A-level), but then, if you want to use it or study it post A-level, it seems to be considered a good combination with further maths and chemistry... resulting in a whole load of subjects all heading in one direction and forcing you to give up essay-based subjects far earlier than you wanted to in order to do it. I didn't want a science-heavy selection of A-level options unless I was certain I wanted a scientific career, so opted for my favourite subjects, instead, knowing that they were all well respected subjects which would get me into a good university and which I was definitely better than most people at, rather than being good at, but not being sure of the competition. I also think that GCSE/O-level science subjects bear little resemblance to what and how you study at A-level and beyond, making it even harder to feel that you are making realistic choices when you make your decision. I knew what to expect with English and maths, because I'd been studying them since I first started school, so knew I wouldn't regret continuing with them... I was also aware that if I enjoyed maths I might have enjoyed physics, but I found the physics GCSE I studied a little bit on the dull side...

I agree wandering. My grandad encouraged me and my DB equally in Maths and physics and responded to our interest wonderfully. He was an electrical engineer.

Also any members of your family /friends can help influence. DH Aunt is a Professor of Physics and has inspired my DD 8 so so much she buys her Science kits and engages in the kind of dialogue about the world and science that I would never even think of in a beautiful and inspiring way.

I am also amazed at the number of scientists posting here :)

I was definitely encouraged by some very enthusiastic teachers and a supportive dad. I know a dad posted earlier in the thread, so just wanted to say never underestimate the influence you have on your daughter when it comes to encouragement :) I think strong male support for female scientists is just as important as strong female role models.

"...amazing..." - well... it's a question of organisation, and really wanting to do it, and having help. All those things make it possible.

But thank you!