1/2 of all state schools have no girls sitting physics A level

I didn't want to carry on with physics at school because it would have meant spending several hours a week in a lab with a hairy teacher with BO and bad breath and an obsession with bicycles and a lot of spotty smelly teenaged boys. Italian with a glamorous lady teacher and fragrant teenaged girls seemed so much more appealing.

There are recurring concerns raised within the science education community that physics is taught 'less well' than biology and chemistry, by which people appear to mean more chalk and talk, and less interactive teaching. (I have to say that I haven't seen any evidence to back this up, but in certain circles its very much a truism.) The word is that many students are likely to enjoy biology in a way that they don't enjoy other A-level sciences, and so opt to take it at 16 without planning to study beyond A-level, whereas physics is chosen only by those who are already thinking about a University course for which physics is a prerequisite.

I wonder whether, if this is the case, whether it does affect gender taking the courses?

Yes it absolutely is worth doing physics if you aren't going to be a physics teacher! I have worked in finance since finishing my degree and the majority of people I worked with did Maths/science/engineering degrees (and the few that didn't had one or more science A levels).

Of course the subject becomes more detail focused as you progress, I think that is true of anything though eg I like being able to order a sandwich in France, less keen on analysing Moliere.

Maybe an overall push is needed about the diversity of careers available from a science background?

Tim Harford wrote in Adapt about how easy it is to "socialise" test results eg women and men in a Maths class who had read a scripted article about how hard their gender found tests on a specific topic then did lots worse when tested on that topic - Of course a "physics is hard, especially for women" meme in society will have an impact.

My DD didnt carry Physics on to A level despite it being one of her A* subjects and despite her wanting to carry on into a science career (Chemistry) quite simply because the subject was so badly taught at her secondary school. Nothing to do with how many girls there were or werent in the class.

Girls are getting the message that you only need to look pretty and marry rich from a very young age. I despair looking at all the princess toys. It's wonderful during the olympics where we see women celebrated for their achievement. But how long will that last?

I think making physics more girl friendly could be helpful, but I suspect we'd need a lot of very high quality research to get to something decent instead of the "Science, it's a girl thing" type of marketing schmalz.

In computer science there was some research (back in the 90s) about the way putting certain courses on the first year of a BSc increased the staying on rate of female comp sci students. Things like database courses and human computer interaction (instead of graphics and Icantrememeberwhatelse). It wasn't about changing the content of the degree at all, merely about putting some courses first instead of others. Given most physics courses are probably designed by mainly men it isn't a big step to assume they create courses more likely to appeal to boys.

Overall though, despite the appeal of the stats for single sex schools, I think what the education sector needs to wake up to is that our society is still very sexist when it comes to education. Girls and boys are getting very different messages about school, academics in different subjects, and jobs. Single sex education is only a mask over the underlying problem - that girls and boys are not afforded the same opportunity in our society.

She was told to apply for Cambridge as she would get in on low grades as a girl

Whaat?

"Is there any point taking physics though if you don't want to do a physics degree/become a physics teacher?"

Yes and no. I think almost everyone who does STEM subjects at university level does physics (and maths). I believe it was required to have physics to do an engineering undergrad. And I think you'll really struggle without it.

I studied in NZ and my physics class at 6th/7th form had 3 girls, all chinese. It's similar with my engineering class, all the girls are either chinese or indian. At least in NZ, it's a cultural thing where white girls don't consider doing STEM subjects at all. If they do science it's always biology, and maybe chemistry.

How would it be possible to make physics more "girl friendly"? It is what it is.

crazymum I don't think they should try to make Physics more "girl friendly" personally. I think the important thing to remember is that not all girls fit those stereotype. So, even if say 7 out of 10 girls are more interested in people rather than things (and so arguably would be less interested in Physics), 3 out of 10 are the other way round. There should still be encouragement and opportunities for those 3 out of 10. Hope that makes sense.

albatross' you could also try STEMNET?

whoknows I'm not a member of a professional body, but I'll take a look at the relevant ones to see what they're up to :) Also not sure how much time I have on my hands due to small kids, but I like doing (too much) stuff!

Women in Science and engineering does still exist - look up AWISE. They do have some local groups.
Interesting debate. I did a level Physics, Maths and Chemistry at all girls school in the 1980s. Then Science degree in Chemistry and PGCE.
Interestingly I did an independent study as part of my PGCE on this very topic. Most of the education research at the time (early 90s) was that the following factors encouraged girls to take up Science are: all girls schools or teaching groups, girls whose fathers (or indeed mothers) who work in Science or engineering are more likely to study science. However the other factors were to do with the way that Science is taught. Girls are more likely to be interested in people rather than things so as Physics is usually about how things work this usually appeals more to boys. Biology tends to be more closely related to people and animals so tends to appeal more to girls. There were ideas in the research about how to make Physics more girl-friendly but this obviously has not been put into action.

I did physics A-level because I was good at it, then went on to do a physics degree. I reckon both A-level and degree classes were about 60/40 men/women. Sad that this seems to have changed.

I used to hate it when people described physics as "unimaginative" or "umcreative" - where else would you learn about the basic constituents of matter in one and in the next, how galaxies are born? Also stood me in great stead for employment, now a sciene writer!

DD did Physics, there were 3 in her class ( indy) and Fast maths - A2 in a year and got an A grade, dropped further maths as didn't need it and decided it was hard work!

She was told to apply for Cambridge as she would get in on low grades as a girl, but she said she did it because she enjoyed it not wanted to do it for the future. She did French at Uni.

Albatross - are you a member of a professional body? I know mine (Royal Society of Chemistry) gets involved in a lot of outreach activities, even if you aren't a member of one worth looking at the website of the one that is most relevant to your area. I'd like to do it too, maybe when the DCs are older and I have more time on my hands.

I'm an engineer, and have always found myself in a minority, but never the only female. e.g. when I did a-level physics, there were 2/8 in the class, and me and the other girl were the best in the class so all the boys respected us. Never bothered me that I was in a minority, but I have quite a stubborn streak and tend to do stuff anyway.

I love being able to do practical stuff and get paid for it, and I never found any of the physics/maths too dry and abstract. I think it is elegant and very satisfying to be able to put lots of different complicated ideas together in an equation or two :)

I do some science outreach as part of my job, but to an adult audience. I'd love to get involved in outreach with teenagers, especially girls, as I remember that some of the courses and events I did as a teenage girl really helped me decide what field to go into. Does anyone know of anything I can get involved in?

Oh, and I like shoes and maths

When I was in the 6th form several of the girls who were studying sciences were given the chance to go on a Women in Science and Engineering thing at Imperial College. Does anyone know if they still exist or if there is a similar organisation these days?

I don't really understand why girls don't want to do physics, it's very depressing really.

My dad did a degree in Physics and explained how things work to us from a very early age - he found it fascinating therefore so did I, I suppose.

me too cake!

I loved Maths too. Is there really a 50/50 split at undergrad level in Maths? That surprises me, at my uni there were way more boys.

I did A level Physics. Not for career or degree reasons but because I think it's great.

My school had about 12 girls out of a year group of 90 something taking Physics. I think 2 of the 12 went on to do it at university (though I agree it's still useful/interesting even if it's not leading to a Physics based degree or career). Pretty good statistics.

But then, mine was an all girls school. So I guess it reinforces the conclusion that it's about girls "dumbing down", particularly in "geeky" or traditionally "male" subjects, in mixed sex schools

I did Physics A-level and I loved it. I think its horrendous that as soon as you start discussing it all the old stereotypical views about it being not for girls and dry/abstract, for people in 'sensible shoes' . Half the problem is that the female population are persuading themselves out of studying the subject.

I think boys are encouraged from a young age to play with moving cars and constructing lego and electronics kits in a way girls aren't. If we gave girls bits of wire and batteries to play with they'd probably get a better feel for it later on. My dad did a degree in Physics and explained how things work to us from a very early age - he found it fascinating therefore so did I, I suppose.

Maths is much more dry and abstract and there's about a 50-50 split studying that at undergraduate level.

DD took physics because there wasn't a third Maths A level she could do, and it was the least worst option of the rest of her choices . Mind you, she's dropped a maths course at university for quantum physics "because it's easier" .

Is there any point taking physics though if you don't want to do a physics degree/become a physics teacher?

DS took it for A level - he's an economist now. The City loves people who are numerate and who have A Levels/degrees in numerate subjects.

Anyway, I can't see the problem with taking a "hard" A level that deals with the meaning of life, the universe ....

I did A-level physics, I was one of 3 girls in my O-Level physics class and and the only girl at A-level, although it was small class, only 6 of us altogether.

This was 20+ years ago, but even then I honestly don't think it was because girls were encouraged less or had less opportunity. I was the A-level teacher's favourite by far because I loved his subject and was good at it. He probably gave me far more attention that he did the boys, but that was because they were less enthusiastic, nothing to do with gender. Other girls just didn't feel that way about it and chose A-level subjects they were interested in. Isn't that how it's supposed to be?

My question would, be why does it matter if girls don't do physics? Provided the opportunity is there if they want to (which it was IME 20+ years ago) why should they do a subject they just aren't interested in? Some girls (and boys) like football, others don't. That's just a fact, it doesn't need solving. Sometimes men and women are different and like different things, that's a fact too. Today there are plenty of opportunities for women (and men) who want to work outside of traditional gender roles, that doesn't mean we should insist that everyone does or should want to.